Trip Advice

[adschmid]

Looking for advice, words of wisdom, etc.

Im planning a trip later this week across lake Erie in my cp16. It's a 33 mile, point to point trip. There are two islands 4-5 miles off my planned course around mile 16, the half-way point. I was planning on doing the trip in one day, 8-10 hours. On board Ill have, a 3.5 outboard, battery (jumper cable type), handheld GPS, handheld VHF, battery powered running lights, two paddles, pfd's, and fuel (5gallons).

Ive never sailed over this distance before, but I have experienced lake Erie weather on board my cp16 (4ft waves, 15-20mph wind). The weather looks like it will be decent... 7-9 mph winds going, likely the same coming back.

Does anyone have experience to suggest that I should not attempt this trip with my cp16?

[Rick Klages]

Erie is more of an inland Sea than a Lake.  I've sailed all my life (Atlantic bays and sounds mostly) and been beyond sight of land a number of times and its no joke (even on big team crewed racing yacht).  You should have enough fuel to motor to shore from at least half way across in the worst conditions you can imagine with 20% extra just in case. Sailing this route will probably be much farther than the 28.7 Nautical Miles that your post states.  If you make 5 Kts all the way (doubtful)  its about 6 hours one way (like on a single reach all the way).  At a more realistic overall speed 2.5 Kts (on the same reach) its 12 Hours each way.  More likely you will need to tack and adjust for leeway and find your route and sailing time extended. This trip is possible with a 16 but not recommended by me.  A well prepared and equipped sailor with experience and preferably a companion boat (another CP16?)  lessons the risk. Not a good idea to solo this one.

[Joseph]

Been there, done that (on a 22 ft and on other Great Lakes, though). If all goes well you will not need anything else. However, it is for all the other situations that you may need to plan ahead.  Lake Erie is shallow, winds can be strong, chop can pile up fast and conditions can change quickly.  I would not recommend you attempt your intended 33 mile passage (single handed??) unless you have experience equivalent to at least a coastal-nav course and the ASA Advanced (night sailing) and Off-shore (out of sight of land) week-long courses.  Here are some further thoughts: a good long and short term forecast is a must as is to keep good radio communications with USCG or CCG stations at all times. In the Great Lakes Weather-Canada uses MAFOR code for marine forecasts, you may wish to familiarize yourself with it (http://boating.ncf.ca/mafor.html). Be aware of commercial freighters and their wake waves.  You may see them but they may not see you: get a radar reflector, an air horn and a high intensity beam light. If you plan to sail during the night, plan also to be awake!If the outboard has one single sparkplug, get a spare. Get good updated charts (either paper or within GPS). Be familiar with all shores, dangers and shelters. You will not be legal without flares (a 16 ft boat may require other things in order to be legal in the Great Lakes). If in a reach your ETT should be close to 8 hours, if beating, possibly twice as much. Be prepared for foul weather. Bring your passwort in case you're blown to Canada. Be aware of closest route to shelter and even program waypoints to this effect in your GPS. Have a harness and jacklines properly rigged. A personal EPIRB may not be an overkill. I'd preffer to have a small dinghy with floatation (a BIC Sportyak? a small inflatable? if not possible at least a ring buoy?).  Enjoy your experience and be safe!

J.

PS.- Rick-K posted while I was typing. Good advice!

[HideAway]

Good advice all.   

I would add that when it does get rough it stays rough for hours.   

We crossed the mouth of Tampa Bay past Egmont Key in seas running around six feet and winds well into the upper 20s and gusting higher on a broad reach towing our wooden dink.   The degree of difficulty to do anything goes off the scale in those condittions.  There were times when my dink was above my head! all that movement will tire you out fast.  The boat did fine but by the time we made Pass A Grille channel near our next anchorage we were both so worn out we just sailed the remaining three miles home cutting our cruise short.    I ve never sailed on lake Erie but I would hazzard a guess that your water temp will be below the 87 degrees of Tampa Bay so you have that to consider too. 

Did I mention that we started that cruise to Long Boat Key, a slightly shorter distance than your cruise, with a full main and the 150 genny and came back under a reefed main and storm jib wishing I had another reef to put in the main?

[romei]

I'm not an experienced sailor yet, but I've sucked the life out of life instead of life sucking the life out of me ever since I was young.  Don't let anyone take away from your dreams.  My best advice to you is that if you're going to do this, make sure that you have have the skill and know how to do it and prepare yourself mentally for the worst and hope for, and expect for the best.  Take the preparation advice from the experienced sailors in here, do your due dilligence and go for it if you think you have what it takes to succeed.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Rip the throat out of the night and tell the story for the rest of your life.  It'll be a better story than, "Well, I wanted to do this but never did".

Here's some inspiration.

http://www.photoboto.com/psyched_up.htm

Fair winds my friend.  Keep a log, take pictures and share them with us. 

You will either wind up an inspiration to the rest of us, or a warning  :-D

[Rick Klages]

Read this for inspiration!

http://www.clevelandmemory.org/ebooks/tinkerbelle/

Comments for Sailors

Tinkerbelle's voyage, I believe, supports the theory that a boat's size has little or no bearing on seaworthiness (only on comfort) and tends to prove that very small boats, reasonably well designed and handled, are capable of crossing oceans.  (However, I hope no one reading these pages will assume that any small boat is able to cross an ocean, because in that direction lies potential tragedy.)  The principal factors that made Tinkerbelle capable of the voyage were, I think, her watertightness with hatches closed, her unsinkableness and her self-righting ability.  Of course, many other factors also were involved, but these three probably were the most important, and the absence of any one of them might have resulted in insuperable difficulties.

My general advice to anyone contemplating an ocean cruise in a small boat is to get all the sailing experience you can, especially in the boat you expect to use, read all you can about the voyages of others and, most important of all, profit to the fullest possible extent from your experience and reading.  Don't gloss over hazards that should be faced squarely.  And don't take chances unnecessarily.  By this I mean don't reason thus:  Yes, I know the mainsheet halyard is badly worn in one spot, but it's probably strong enough to last through this voyage.  Or:  The bilge pump seems to be working all right, so I don't see why I should have to check its insides or take along spare parts.  It is folly to leave a potential source of trouble uncorrected.

It is important to assume, I think, that at one time or another your boat will be completely submerged and/or capsized and, to be extra safe, that it will be filled with water.  So you need a boat capable of coping with each of these possibilities.  If you don't have such a boat, the risks you face will be correspondingly greater. - Robert N. Manry

Discretion before valor

ick

[Bob23]

   Considering that your 16, like my 23, will sink if flooded, maybe bringing along a rented survival raft might not be a bad idea. I've read the above replies and they all make sense and range from "do it- rather than regret not doing it" to "be darned well prepared" to "learn from the attempts and experiences of others". All sum up my philosophy concerning distance cruising.
  I read a great deal of stories of offshore exploring in small boats and one thing seems to be true: The more prepared you are, the greater your chances of success, but not always. Many experienced men have not returned. The unexpected can happen like the family whose 43 foot schooner was attacked by killer whales for an unknown reason out from the Galapogos Islands
and sank in 60 seconds thereby forceing  them to spend the next 37 days in a life raft and dingy. Thier book is called "Survive the Savage Sea" by Dougal Robertson. Find it and read it.
   True, Lake Erie may not be the Atlantic or Pacific but could there be a log floating around, waiting to hole your boat? Maybe. I wouldn't want to float in a pfd after finding out!
Bob23...just my 2 cents     

[Craig Weis]

What? 3:20 am. Can't you sleep?
The Sturgeon Bay Maratime Museum and Light House Preservation Society [boy that's a mouthful] has a winter speaker series and one speaker told of a voyage that circumferences Lake Superior in a [18 foot?] Hobby Cat with his then 16 year old daughter.
Kind of an interesting story. That stretched canvas deck was their only shelter in water and on the beach.
Think about it.
skip.

[Joseph]

In case you really got to go, the following is highly recommended:

"There Be No Dragons: How to Cross a Big Ocean in a Small Sailboat"
by Reese Palley, Sheridan House (January 25, 1996)

J.

[HideAway]

What a treasure trove of great advice!

to add a bit to it-  I always file a float plan and give it to someone I know will act upon it if theydon't hear from us. Then  I make up a binder with plastic sheets.   I plot several what if courses - what if the wind is more south than west etc.  making notes of interest, tides for each location we plan to anchor at.  I look for places to hide from a storm for instance.  I plan the return trip as well in the same manner.  The course plots both coming and going are on the chart as well as the binder. Sheets in the binder are printed in large type.  I ve found that it really helps to have this available and makes decision making easier when you are hot, cold, or tired

My advice though - prepare the best you can and go for it

[adschmid]

This is all excellent advice!

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, wisdom, etc. It has been helpful as I plan this trip. That said, I'm going to postpone the trip until I get better weather. I have to make a SE course out and NW course back. The wind is forecast to blow from the WNW(12-13mph) going and coming back NW (13-10mph). Running with the wind is slow in my cp16...I dont have a spinnaker, and you all know what its like beating up wind in a cp16...slow going.

I went out yesterday evening in very similar weather (NW-WNW 12-15mph) to see how well I could make my SE course towards my destination. Running with the wind I made about 3.5-4.0mph (3-3.5kts), but, I had to jibe back and forth to head in the correct direction. It was pretty comfortable sailing, but, at that pace it would take me at least ten hours to cover the 32 miles, and there would be the constant risk of an unexpected jibe. Plus, I just dont like to jibe. I went out about 2 miles, jibing on a SE course, then turned to beat back to the dock. I picked up a lot of speed on the way back...averaging around 5mph (max on the GPS was 7mph). But, I had to make long tacks to gain headway. The chop was about 2 feet, not a problem, but, it would probably have been 3-4ft out in the open water. I can imagine my 32 mile return trip turning into 60+ miles beating into the wind like that. For my 4 mile round trip, I logged just over 8 miles and was out for just over 2 hours.

Im going to hope for a few days of strong southerly or northerly winds to come across before I attempt the trip. For this weekend I'm planing a shorter (13mile) trip out to an island south of my home port. The WNW wind should take me there and back with little problem.

Thanks again for all of the advice!

[TeamSlacker]

What? 3:20 am. Can't you sleep?
The Sturgeon Bay Maratime Museum and Light House Preservation Society [boy that's a mouthful] has a winter speaker series and one speaker told of a voyage that circumferences Lake Superior in a [18 foot?] Hobby Cat with his then 16 year old daughter.
Kind of an interesting story. That stretched canvas deck was their only shelter in water and on the beach.
Think about it.
skip.

The story is at sailingbreezes.com also. Go to past issues, looks like the story starts in oct/nov 2007 and runs each month until sep 2008:
"Adventure Bound: A Father and Daughter Circumnavigate the Greatest Lake in the World"

[sun17cat]

As far as gybing you can take some of the stress out of it by rigging a preventer when running down wind. They are usually very easy to rig and operate. I have spent many years sailing the Great Lakes and can tell you that if you have a specific destination and time frame you will be motor sailing most of the time. I have always said that you can get anywhere you want to go under sail if you have enough time and patience. Good Luck.

[Craig Weis]

That's it Team Slacker! The story about going around a big pond with a little boat.
You don't need the 'hard to read quotes in a box', just cut and paste to the post your working on.


The story is at sailingbreezes.com also. Go to past issues, looks like the story starts in oct/nov 2007 and runs each month until sep 2008:
"Adventure Bound: A Father and Daughter Circumnavigate the Greatest Lake in the World"

skip.