23-3 Nav and Bow Light Problem

[sam23]

I recently purchased a 1989 Com-Pac 23-3 Christmas eve and joined the association yesterday.  Sunday evening we took the boat out to watch the sunset on Sarasota Bay.  On the way in I flipped the toggle switches for the bow and nav lights but nothing happened (no lights).   Fortunately we got in before it got too dark.  The accessory and interior lights worked fine and the fuses appeared good. Are there hidden (at least from me) secondary switches for these lights or does anyone have suggestions for the most likely failure mechanism?  Any guidance will be appreciated.

[bob lamb]

Ahoy Sam
   I have a 1989 CP23d with the same light setup.  There are no "secondary" swicthes (unless the previous owner did some rewiring). I'd check the connections at the base of the mast.  Check the bulbs in each fixture. 
   I have had a phantom failure like you speak of.  Both lights would not come on one night while cruising.  When we anchored I attempted to check things out (in the dark) with no success.  The next morning I tried the lights and both worked,  Still haven't figured that one out???
   It's always best to check all lights before leaving the dock.

Happy Sailing and Welcome to 23 Land!

Bob
CP23d "Blest B'yond B'lief"

[sam23]

Thanks for the fast response Bob.  I'll get my meter out and start probing.  I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something obvious.  It is interesting you also had both circuits go out.  They appear to be independent.  I will definitely check the lights before doing any night time cruising in the future.

[Bob23]

Hi, Sam:
   I, still after a complete rewire, have an occasional problem with my steaming light. Seems to be in the original socket on the deck, something I did not replace. In the rewire, I installed a new panel and located it on the top shelf, aft, starobard side.
   Welcome to the ownership of a fine yacht!
   Bob23 on the hard and varnishing!

[sam23]

Thanks Bob.  I am going to dig into my lighting problem tomorrow.  I'll report back if I discover anything that might be useful to others.

I am interested in your rewiring project and new panel.  Could you forward a picture of your new panel showing the location?  The existing postion under the companion way seems a little out of the way and hard to see in low light situations.   

[curtisv]

Sam,

Congratulation on your new (to you) CP23.

btw - I'm not sure who to address this to since you didn't add any signature but Bob went with Sam and that seems to work.

If the side lights and stern light both don't work, the problem is likely to be wiring within the boat or a fuse or switch.  First check to see if the stern light is on.  If so it is wiring from to the bow of the boat or it could be the bulb or sidelights.  If both sidelights and stern are out, then the problem is before the wires branch which I think is right at the panel.  Start with a meter on the back of the switch.  One side should have 12V when the switch is "off" and when the switch is "on" both sides should have 12V (nominal).

If you don't have 12V on either side of the switch it could be the fuse or wiring from the battery to the panel.  (I think the fuse is on the battery side before the switch).

If you have 12V on one side with the switch in any position its a bad switch.

The bow light (steaming light) is another story.  That could be the fixture on the mast which on my CP23 was tempermental (didn't always make contact).  At this point I don't have much use for a steaming light (I sail with no motor) but its nice keep everything working.  The deck connector is also a cause of trouble.  It there is 12V at the switch panel, then check for 12V at  the deck connector.

I rewired my CP23 and changed a lot so pictures of my wiring won't help.

If the boat has been around salt water a lot then everything is suspect including connectors and the wire itself.  Corrosion can get into the wire and cause breaks in the wire, usually near connectors.  A little corrosions plus the motion of the boat can bend a wire back and forth enough times to cause the strands to gradually break.  So far I've only had a corrosion problem with the VHF antenna wire.  Use the good stuff if you replace any wiring.  Ancor tinned copper marine wire is far more corrosion resistant than the automotive plain copper stuff.   And don't use house wire as that is solid copper, not stranded, and is more prone to breaking due to repeated motion.  Securing the wire instead of just letting long it lay on the hull (as it comes from the factory) also helps to keep the wire from moving though that would only be an issue over a long time and if the boat is used a lot.

Curtis

[sam23]

Thanks Curtis and Bob,

I discovered one had better have a ohm meter when diagnosing such problems.  I found a bulb and fuse that, to the eye appeared fine, but had  breaks. 

My boat has Aqua Signal 23 Series nav lights which require a rather special bulb.  West Marine carries them it turns out (PN 175203 --also available as Ancor 529333).

My bow (mast head) light is still out, but I had no way to get to it.  I have 12 volts on the connector at the base of the mast.

All the bulb connectors were tarnished to corroded which did not help my lighting.  I cleaned these and coated them with bulb grease.  I am hoping the bulb grease will reduce the oxidation on the connectors. 

On another slightly related topic, does anyone have a recommendation on spotlights.  I think I had better get one if I caught out at night.

Thanks again,
Sam

[edbuchanan]

Hi Sam,

Did you try using the ohmmeter on the wires going up the mast?  If you have an open circuit there, you should at least look at the connections inside the little male connector.  If all is well with the ohmmeter, you can try using bulb grease on the mast connectors.  My steaming and anchor lights have thus far been perfect since I applied the grease to all contacts.  I wish I had known about bulb grease years ago.

I have been using an Aqua Signal model 80 submersible handheld spotlight for about 12 flawless years.  It has a real sealed beam bulb (expensive to replace at about $30), is SOLAS approved, and is wrapped in a black neoprene sleeve sealed with large stainless hose clamps.  The Morse feature is marginal.

Ernie (Molly 23/II, 1984)

[kchunk]

Hi there Sam. The boat you bought, was it the red one on Craigslist? I called about that one a few days after it was listed and BAM, it was gone. Was a fast sale. It looked like it was in pretty good shape. I still have my eye on two others...unfortunately, I'll have to travel a bit further to look them. I'm over in Daytona by the way. I'll probably be buying one within the next two weeks or so.

[sam23]

Sorry.  It very likely was the one you saw on Craigslist.  It came with a great docking situation I could not pass up.  Yes, the boat seems in very good shape....except for the  D#%! lights. ;-)

[HideAway]

I had the same problem with my bow and stern lights.  When I took the stern light apart the plastic  crumbled in my hand so I ended up replacing the entire fixture -  not a fun job with the boat in the water. 

The bow light situation was caused I think by the anchor rode catching on the wiring.  At the very bottom of the bow -  all the way to the base of the hull the wires come up from who knows where.  Just above the point where the wires came through the fiber glass one of the wires was broken.  I repaired the break and checked all splices etc and some combination of the above solved the problem for now. 

The long story was that after taking the port light off the hull I broke the small piece of fiberboard that holds the spring down and had to make  a new one.  The longer story is that one of my probe wires on the volt/ohm meter was defective.  This of course was not discovered until well into the problem solving. 

My boat is hull #2 and it has been in salt water its entire life.  I've found that many electrical problems can be resolved by taking the offending parts wires, connections and fuses off or apart and reassembling them.  I recently did this with my gps after it failed to start up.  There was no visible corrosion to the in line fuse, yet just taking it apart to check it solved the problem.   Bulb grease is a real good idea!

[sam23]

Thanks Hideaway.  My nav lights are now working and I was able to buy a new set on eBay at a reasonable price.  So I am in good shape on nav light. 

The bow light is still not working, but I have not gone up the mast yet to check it out.  I have power at the connector at the base of the mast.  Do you or does anyone know what bulb is used in the bow light.  I'd just as soon only go up the mast only once. ;-)

Thanks,
Sam

[LConrad]

Before you go up, you might want to take a couple of blue crimp connectors.  I found a connection pulled in two on my 23.  The bulb is probably the long slender type that looks like a small glass fuse with pointed ends.  My light seems to be a Perko 1331.

[sam23]

Thanks LConrad.  I had not thought of severed wire.  I take some crimp connectors and tool on the vertical ride. ;-)

[Bob23]

Sam:
   I am replying late to your 1/11 post. Yes the panel under the companionway is terrible. I'll try to post some photos soon. I couldn't log on to the site for a few weeks- It didn't recognize my password.
Bob23 in NJ