New Com-pac16 Sails?

[jaking]

I have a 1983 Com-pac16 Mark I, which needs new sails. I haven't seen any New England sailmakers offering Com-pac 16 sails. Can anyone recommend a sailmaker for such old model sails?

[DOUG142]

HI,
I ALSO HAVE A 1983 CP-16 AND NEEDED NEW SAILS..... FOUND MINE AT FX SAILS .  THEY TAKE ABOUT 4 TO 6 WEEKS TO MAKE AND SHIP TO YOU.  THEY MADE ME A NEW MAIN AND JIB ALSO.  PRICE SEEMED VERY RESONABLE AND THEY EVEN COME WITH A NEW SAIL BAG.  SAVE YOUR OLD BATTENS THO.  THE NEW SAILS DID NOT COME WITH BATTENS, BUT HAD THE POCKETS THERE... VERY WELL MADE AND I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM...FX SAILS..
TELL THEM DOUG MARTINDALE SENT YOU.
THANKS AND GOOD LUCK..
MY EMAIL IS DOUGMARTINDALE AT WI DOT RR DOT COM IF YOU WANT TO EMAIL ME AND THEN I CAN SEND YOU PICS OF MY NEW SAILS FROM FX SAILS.
HAPPY SAILING,
DOUG

[multimedia_smith]

Over the past three years I've bought several sails from these folks, starting with a light air full batten main, then a 155 Genoa specially cut to clear the pulpit on a 10" pendant, next was a 60% storm jib, then a heavy air loose footed main.  My next sail from them will be a new standard 110 jib, but also cut to sheet from the pendant.  You know they have to be good to keep me coming back... also Bob Burgess has bought sails from them... 'nuff said.
Contact: Dirk Sharland
National Sail Supply (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)
26092 Withrow Rd
Brooksville, FL 34601
www.nationalsail.com
Toll Free (within US) 1-800-611-3823
Outside US 352-540-9101
Fax 813-200-1385

They're reasonably priced and great to work with.

My first sail from them was a Rolley Tasker light air full batten main... the "factory specs" on the site must have had a typo...
Here's a thread from '04 about how they handled it.

The specs for the Mainsail state a luff of 16'3".... this has to be a typo.
I got my new mainsail and even after removing my cunningham cleat and squishing the boom all the way down to resting on my (now useless) boom kicker and boom vang... the luff was still not tight.

I called Dirk and he and I both looked at the specs together.  He said that he used to produce the OEM sails, so I originally didn't bother to measure my original sails.  My measurement on the luff of my stock sail was 15'3".  So I measured my mast which is 17'.  He said that my sail must have been altered or my rig shortened.

I called Woodie at ComPac and he confirmed that the mast height is correct and stock at 17'... he also confirmed the published (incorrect) spec of a 16'3" luff length for the main.  I said that this could not be possible if you do the math... 17' mast, minus 16'3" main luff, minus 4" for the boom end fitting including the conningham ring and sail attachment pin leaves 5"... allow a couple of inches for the knot on the halyard and a couple of inches for the shackle and you have the boom practically sitting on the cabin top... Dirk said that someone else had called to complain that everyone now had to "duck" when they tacked.

We then went again to the link that has the specs, and I asked him to look at the pic of the lady in the red shirt with the two kids aboard and we both agreed that all the CP-16 pictures look like they have a foot or so off the deck clearance for the boom.

Woodie is "looking into it"... but if you do the math... there is definitely a typo. 
My original sail luff is 15'3" (plus a little stretch).. so I'm sure that's got to be it.

Dirk has been great about it... he replaced the sail with no problem... and gained my repeat business and recommendation.

Fair Winds

Dale

here are some pics of the sails they made for me.

http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=291
http://www.com-pacowners.com/gallery2/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10114&pos=-816
http://www.com-pacowners.com/gallery2/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10114&pos=-813

[jaking]

Dale and Doug: Many thanks for the suggestions. I've contacted both sailmakers and will definitely buy sails from one or the other, or maybe split the order to both.
Jon K.

[bbradbury]

Dale,
I'm interested in what response Woodie at Com-Pac may have for you on the mainsail.  Your measurements on your mainsail are about the same as idouglas (94 CP16-3/XL) and myself (95 CP16-2).  As you indicated, a mainsail measurement of 16'3" is much to large.  My mainsail measurements are:
Luff (P) = 15'6"
Foot (E) = 7'3"
Leach    = 16'8"
What I do not understand is why the foot measurement is not 8'.  With the boom measurement being 8'7" there is plenty of room.  I wonder what kind of improvement an 8' Foot would make in sailing performance.   
Bruce

[multimedia_smith]

I think the boom length is a factor of the end boom sheeting on our (older) boats.  If it were shorter the sheet lines would be in the way.  The newer models have a traveler mounted on the seat just behind the companionway and sheet mid boom.  I don't know, but it seems as if that would be in the way... I like to sit there sometimes... I also like to get to things in the cabin. 
Anyway, the correct luff measurement is 15'3" on the main... yours may be older or just stretched.  Dirk at National Sails used to make the OEM sails or at least has the specs... you might give him a call.

On my new "heavy air" main I just had them make for me... I went with a 3" shorter luff (to 15') but had them extend the foot nine inches... to keep the forces lower.  It is loose footed and shapes great... a lot of shape control.  The first reef point takes in 3 1/2' of luff and the second reef point takes in another 3 1/2'.  I got these measurements from going out in really strong conditions with the roller reefed original main and my new 60% storm jib that I also got from Dirk.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Dale

[B.Hart]

I also need a new set of sails for my 16. Could either of you guys give me a roundabout cost for a set? I was thinking about national (there only 50 miles fron me) Thanks BILL

[bbradbury]

Sorry I can't help you out on pricing.  I need to get some prices myself for a new main and std (110) jib.  The jib I have is a 135% that I got from the previous owner and its in good shape.  I do need to size down for heavier weather.  Getting near the end of the sailing season here in Maine so I will have to order over the winter for next summer.  Its going to really hurt hauling the boat out.....I'm already wishing it was spring 08!
Bruce
CP 16/2

[Craig Weis]

For any sails SailEast has always been good to me. skip.

[multimedia_smith]

As best as I can recall is listed below... you should give them a call for current pricing... their sails are beautiful.

60% storm jib - $150

Heavy air Main w/ two reef points $300 plus shipping

Full Batten Mainsail - around  $400 w/ ComPac insignia

155% genoa - 3oz dacron, LP = 8.5', sail area = 65 sq ft, hanks on luff - $174 (I wound up replacing the hanks with positive spring hanks in light nylon)

Sails come with a 2 year warranty and include leech lines with cleats, tell tales and sail bags. Current delivery time is 3 to 4 weeks from confirmation of order.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you would like to discuss further details.

Good sailing,
Dirk Sharland
National Sail Supply (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)
14042 Marquette Blvd.
Fort Myers, FL 33905
http://www.nationalsail.com/
Toll Free (within US) 1-800-611-3823
Outside US 239-693-1896
Fax 239-693-5504

[finchm]

I bought new sails from Dirk.  They are great and were at a fair price.

Get the fully battened main, it is worth the extra $90.

[B.Hart]

 thanks for the reply guys, The prices seem very reasonable for what you are getting.   HAPPY SAILING   BILL

[DanN]

I bought new sails from Dirk.  They are great and were at a fair price.

Get the fully battened main, it is worth the extra $90.

   Is the fully battened main strictly for light air or can it be used in stronger conditions (e..g. 10-15 knots?)

Would you go loose footed on this kind of main?

[Rick Klages]

Yes you can. Battons help a sail maintain a specific shape regardless of wind velocity.  Loose footed allows you more control of sail shape.  Some boats  combine these elements as basic equipment.

from: UK-Halsey's Encyclopedia of Sails  http://www.ukhalsey.com/LearningCenter/encyclopedia/encyclopedia4a.asp

Shelf Foot and Loose Foot

The Shelf-Foot and Loose-Foot constructions are options that allow us to add a substantial degree of extra fullness in the lower portion of the mainsail in order to improve racing performance on reaches and runs. In very light air, the improved performance is achieved even to windward. The extra fullness is removed by tightening the outhaul. When the outhaul is eased, the sail maintains an airfoil shape down to the boom. With the Shelf-Foot option, a light piece of material connects the sail to the boom. With the outhaul eased, the connecting material unfolds and forms a shelf between the bottom of the main and the boom. When the outhaul is pulled tight, the shelf closes up and lays against the side of the boom.

Loose-Foot construction does away with the shelf material. The sail is only attached to the boom at the tack and clew. This attachment method is equally as strong as that of the foot attached to the boom. Many boats are switching to Loose-Footed mains because they make it easier to bend on your mainsail and to remove the sail from the boom — and it's less expensive.


The Batmain
     
We use the term Batmain to describe a mainsail with full-length battens, meaning the battens extend all the way across the sail from leech to luff. Full-length battens have many virtues for cruising sailors including better shape holding ability, longer life and easier handling. The sails last longer because the full-length battens prevent flogging — the violent snapping back and forth that happens when you're tacking, reefing, hoisting or lowering your sail. As conventional sails flog, the sailcloth breaks down, especially at the front end of the battens where the leech of the sail "hinges" back and forth. Flogging is the prime culprit in sail wear-and-tear. The full-length battens induce a smooth airfoil shape to the sail, which improves performance in all conditions. In light air the Batmain holds a smooth airfoil shape instead of sagging like a wrinkled bed sheet.
Also, the Batmain won't slat as the boat rolls in the waves. In heavy air the Batmain doesn't flog when the sheet is eased out to reduce heeling. The Batmain does not flail and snap when depowered, the silence is a pleasant surprise. Full-length battens also restrict the draft of the sail from moving aft in heavy air when sailing upwind. Downwind, the full-length battens hold out the leech of the main giving you more pro-jected sail area. 

All major rating rules, IMS, MORC, and PHRF permit sails with full-length battens with no rating change at all. If your current main is in good condition, its life can be extended by adding full-length battens.

Also:

Full Batten Mainsail

Mauri MZ1 and MZ4 Full Batten Mainsails.       http://www.maurisails.com/Cruising-Sails/full-batten-mainsail.htm                                       

Standard Features   

- Full Battens                                 <<<<<<<<<<<<
- Slides
- Cunningham
- Headboard
- Cruising Roach
- Loose foot                                  <<<<<<<<<<<<<
- Leech line and foot lines
- Leech telltales
- Drawstring sail bag




http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php



Just something to chew on.






ick

[Paul]

Rick:
Thanks for the information.  Sounds like all virtues.

I do have one question, though.  A loooongggg time ago I used to sail a Hobie 16.  Old rig, but had battens in the main.  Maybe they all do, I don't know.  Anyhow, I found it a real pain in the neck to adjust the tension on those battens.  So, my question is, how much trouble do you (and any others with battens) feel it is to change the tension/sail shape?  And is it worth the changes?

I would suspect it's not a "set it and forget it" sort of thing.

Thanks,
Paul