Waste management

[TopsailB]

The new to me CP-27 has a 7 gallon holding tank, with the usual plumbing arrangement for overboard or pump out waste handling. The tank seems adequate for day sailing with a  few folks on board, maybe a weekend for two if used sparingly. The required pump out frequency seems to be a limiting factor for cruising with a couple or two. I?m open to replacing the tank with one of larger capacity or installing a composting head, but I?m not sure which way to go.

Any experiences or suggestions would be appreciated-thanks.

[deisher6]

Hey TopsailB:
I have installed an AirHead on our PSC-34.  It is fairly tight.  It also requires a full time vent, and emptying the urine container daily.  I am somewhat ashamed to admit that on both of our C-27's we never used the holding tank.

I think that the unit would fit very well in a C-27's roomier head.  I admire Wes's electric flush, fresh water, larger holding tank, head on his '27. However I like more to be pump out free. 

The last media change lasted 6 months. The boat is used abut 100 days per year.

Disadvantages of composting head: continuous low amperage vent, disposing of urine daily (it will not hold two 6-packs), separate handling of toilet paper, disposing of used media.
Disadvantages of holding tanks:  pumpouts and or directing waste directly overboard, smelly plumbing, choker valves, rebuilding kits, through hulls.

I believe that we have met and talked at Duck Creek.  If so you have a very good looking '27.

regards charlie

[TopsailB]

We have met-the boat was on the hard at the time. She?s in a slip at Duck Creek now, and does look pretty good.

Thanks for the informed thoughts about both systems. On the CP23 I use a bucket with a seat and bag the waste for disposal ashore. Our previous boats had large capacity holding tanks that were pumped weekly while cruising. I keep thinking how nice it would be not to have to deal with that.

One question comes to mind-any thoughts you can share comparing the smells associated with each of the systems?

[Tim Gardner]

Although not on my sailboat, at my dock on Smith Mountain Lake, I have been operating a composting toilet for over 20 Years.  There is no smell unless you are directly down wind of the vent.  A carbon vent filter on marine applications should belay that concern.  That said, the airhead unit does have the urine and paper capacity issues Charlie describes.  I have considered in the past the Sun-Mar marine unit that requires a holding tank (No longer available) for overflow urine, and now they produce a urine diverting unit that holds up to 4 liters of liquid. for less than $700

[wes]

The original 7 gal waste tank on my 1988 CP-27 rusted out at the exit port. I ordered a replacement from Hutchins, but had them customize the sizes and locations of the entry, exit, and vent ports so I could implement the plumbing arrangement advocated by Don Casey in "This Old Boat" (a must-buy). His approach eliminates the Y-valve. All waste is pumped directly into the tank via a vented loop. The exit hose enters a tee fitting and splits upwards to the deck pump-out fitting and downwards to the through-hull via a seacock. Keep the seacock closed and you can pump out at the deck. Open it and you can drain the tank overboard. Simple, only one moving part (seacock) and fully approved by the USCG.

As Charlie said, I use a Raritan electric toilet (freshwater type) with macerator so the tank entry hose is 1", not 1.5", another reason for a custom tank. Hutchins didn't charge anything to customize the tank since they make them to order anyway.

If I had this to do over again, Hutchins offers a larger 13 gal tank and I'd absolutely buy it. At the time I hadn't cruised the boat, and didn't understand what a limitation the 7 gal tank would turn out to be. I'd also have them provide a standard 5-hole port for a level sensor (Maretron or similar) so I could remotely monitor the level.

Wes

[deisher6]

Hey TopsailB:
Our first 1986 C-27 was new when we used it and other than rebuilding the JABSCO pumping stuff a couple of times and most memorably retrieving the hand pump shaft after our youngest unscrewed the knob on top (requiring disassembly of the pump while the bowl was full of course), it worked as advertised.  Athough always pumped overboard.  Our second '86 C-27 purchased in 2009 required replacement of all hoses, rebuild of flush stuff, and a new tank.......before it was removed it smelled like a 4-holer on a hot day.  Our 93 PSC-34 had original hoses and a partially filled built in fiberglass holding tank.  After I removed the toilet, hoses, whale pump, and cleaned the holding tank and sealed it with Kilz, leaving only the bronze fittings it was 4-5 months before the smell completely left.  I am very happy with the present smell(s).  It is a head after all but it is not offensive any more than a newly installed raw water flusher.
regards charlie

[TopsailB]

The info, experiences, and pictures shared are great. Many thanks.

I?m leaning toward a composting/desiccating head primarily to avoid pump outs. Has anyone had a problem with fruit flies or other flying insects? I?m not excited about the idea of cutting a hole in the deck or coach roof, but realize that a vent has to located somewhere. One solution is to use the pump out fitting on deck with a small mushroom vent. Another is to use a reduction fitting and the existing tank vent, but I wonder what impact the resulting cfm reduction might be.

On the other hand, a 13 gallon tank with the recommended plumbing changes would be a significant improvement.

[Steve H]

I've had an Nature's Head toilet on Molly Brown for 3 seasons now. It was installed by the previous owner. The vent is where the old pump-out connection was. The fan is so quiet that I'm never sure if it is actually running. I've done a week-long trip with 4 people and 2 weeks with 2 people and it worked great. I've tried to let it sit when I'm not using the boat but I always get a fly infestation, so I empty and clean it at the end of every trip. I've never had a problem if the boat is being used and is stirred occasionally. The Nature's Head owner's manual has a couple of solutions if you get flies, including adding Diatomaceous Earth to the compost.

My head has a 2.2 Gallon urine container and a spare, so it does not need to be emptied every day. I also keep a couple of CLEARLY MARKED 1 gallon milk containers on board so every guy gets their own.

Here is a link to the Nature's Head user's guide: file:///C:/Users/steve/Downloads/Natures_Head_Installation_Manual_Users_Guide_2017-edited.pdf

[TopsailB]

Thanks for the info and suggestions re insects. Is the pump out fitting covered by a Vetus mushroom vent or something else?

[Steve H]

Sorry, I don't know, it's not something that I've ever thought about.