Electric Outboards

[Bub]

Has anyone had experience with Torqeedo or ePropulsion 3 hp electric motors? I have a
SunDay Cat 17.
I have had it with gas motors, and do not need the hassle anymore. And the range and runtimes of the electrics is adequate. However, I need to know more about reliability and durability, etc.
Many Thanks

[bruce]

Bub,

I've used both motors over the past 3 years. There is a good bit of content on the list, here's a couple of links to get you started. I'm sure any specific questions you have will be answered promptly.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11942.0
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=12060.0

This British dealer stocks both the Torqeedo and ePropulsion motors, and compares them fairly, IMHO.
https://nestawayboats.com/shop/epropulsion-spirit-plus-1kw-electric-outboard/
https://nestawayboats.com/shop/torqeedo-travel-1003s-1103cs/

Both lines have new models out. The Torqeedo 1103C replaces the 1003C. It now has a brushless direct-drive motor (as do the Spirits) so it is a little quieter and less prone to error codes that were intended to protect the geared drive in the 1003C. Note the larger motor bulb (than the 1003C and Spirits), that potentially may cause interference with rudders.

The Spirit 1.0 Plus has a larger battery than the 1.0 (and 40% more than the 1103C), is easier to hook up to remote battery packs and solar chargers, and has an improved SS battery connector that proved vulnerable in earlier models. The EVO version includes the above, plus the ability to generate power while sailing: 50W @ 4 kts (min), 140W @ 6 kts, 260W @ 8 kts, and 360W @ 10 kts (max). Still not great for typical SC speeds, and the drag is going to be a factor, but regen is getting better.

The connector issue on the Spirit has been addressed. In my experience, both companies have been very responsive to questions or issues I've had. I have no idea what availability is these days, being new models.

[bruce]

I forgot to mention that if you're interested in a remote throttle vs. a tiller, as these motors are most commonly shown, you have fewer options. I much prefer the remote, I don't need another tiller.

The Torqeedos are sold with the tiller, the remote can be purchased as an accessory. It is hard wired.

The Plus doesn't have a remote option. The EVO can be ordered either way, and can be converted if you change you mind. Previous Spirit models were one or the other, no conversion possible. The remote is Bluetooth, with a cable for back up. There is a slight delay when starting the Spirit as the remote and motor sync, I still prefer the wireless vs. the wired.

[Jim in TC]

Bruce covers a lot of the information and research you can do.

We have been using the Torqueedo (older model) for several years on a Sun Cat, with great results. I can only recall one time that an error code popped up and kept the motor from running briefly, while I reset the connection to the motor. We have been in serious wind and chop without overwhelming the motor when going upwind to douse the sail (though I will admit we were pretty near topped out that time in 3'chop and gusts to 30+).

We use the remote throttle, and pop the motor throttle arm on briefly for maneuvering in and out of our slip, but it would be an inconvenience while under way.

We started with one battery, the lower capacity one. This left us with a bit of range anxiety, and we picked up a spare, larger size, a year or so after purchase; a factory recall of the old battery and a favorable deal has left us with 2 high capacity batteries and range far beyond anything we will use with our close-to-home sailing. We typically use about 10% or less of our capacity on any given outing, from slip to nearby open water and back.

We found a local dealer for the original purchase, but they quit carrying Torqueedo by the time we picked up the second battery, from Defender Marine.

Feel free to post your specific questions and concerns.

[Renae]

Love my eProp, and relatively few problems, most of which were fixed on the recent upgrades.  Besides being reliable, you can have normal volume conversations while motoring.  I'm looking for a 30-35 foot boat now and the thing holding me back is having to go back to internal combustion.  Once you're past it, you don't want to return.

[Bob23]

I'd think that in a boat of that size, normal conversation would be quite possible. A correctly sized and properly maintained diesel can be dependable and efficient. Or you could, like Lin and Larry Pardey go engineless!
Bob23

[DanM]

We have a Torqeedo on our SunCat, which is moored, in season, on a small lake in upstate NY. It works fine to get us out into the lake to raise sail, or to just putter around. I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it to get home against a strong tidal current, for example. Battery life is VERY dependent on speed. At low speed you might have hours to run. At top speed you can run it out in maybe half an hour. I love the quiet and low maintenance and not dealing with internal combustion. That said, It does not have the guts of our old 5 hp Honda. Also, our mooring field gets very weedy later in the season, and the Torqeedo gets bound up with weeds much faster than the Honda did- probably a function of both power and prop design. So mixed feelings, but overall happy with the electric for our application. And my wife isn't intimidated and adverse to driving the boat with it as she was with the gas motor- it's just friendlier. And unlike its predecessor, it starts every time!

[bruce]

I'm looking for a 30-35 foot boat now and the thing holding me back is having to go back to internal combustion.

Not sure of your plans and motoring needs (Great Loop, probably not!), but there are conversion kits available. Thunderstruck is popular.
https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/electric-sailboat-kits-and-accessories-inboard-motor-ev/

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, there's good content here on DIY projects. A degree in engineering would be useful, but not required to join! Thunderstruck is often mentioned.
https://groups.io/g/electricboats/topics

Plugboats puts out guides for various aspects of electrical propulsion for boats. Here's the one for inboards.
https://plugboats.com/electric-inboard-boat-motors-guide-over-150-motors/

I do like DIY, but I think a kit would work better for me.

[Jim in TC]

Battery life is VERY dependent on speed. At low speed you might have hours to run. At top speed you can run it out in maybe half an hour.

This is true, and if a distance needs to be covered speed is not indicated (and head winds and chop are also an issue). Before we had some depth in our battery system (one battery, low capacity, well below 50% remaining) we were a ways off from the ramp on the last day of the season when the wind died back significantly. Torqueedo tells you your potential distance at a given speed, and we started to motor in. I asked the guy I was with if he thought we were more than 2 miles from the ramp...and he suggested we slow down even more. That day, though, we learned that these boats "motor-sail" quite well, and leaving the sail up we could see our range increase with every little puff of wind and we came in at a reasonable speed with a bit of battery left.

The difference in general, though, in decreasing speed from full throttle, going maybe 5+ mph in calm water, and the same conditions at 4 is quite dramatic, and the sweet spot for good range and getting back to port for cocktails seems to be around 3.5 for us, if the wind dies far from harbor. 

[bruce]

I've found I motor sail more often with the electric OB as well. Easier to start than the gas or propane motors I've used, and quiet, just drop it in the water and go. Reassuring when clearing the shipping channel on a calm day as traffic approaches faster than you'd estimated, or limp home as you describe.

[Sunny Day]

Hi,

I changed to a Sunday cat with a Torqedo 1003 last fall and the best part is now I don't hesitate to do a day sail at the drop of the hat.

Took some visitors out the Sunday after Christmas...when I used a gas motor, my motor would have been winterized and I would hesitate to use it during the cold season.

I have added a jumper that will allow the Torqedo battery to charge fom the boat 12v battery and plan to test that as a range extender this spring.

Even if I cannot run the torqedo while the boat 12v is plugged in...I expect that I could add charge to the torqedo battery when the motor is off while I am sailing....

Like I said, I haven't really tested that feature yet.  But I did fully charge the torqedo battery from the boat 12v after the "Boxing Day" outing.

Regards,
Steve

[kickingbug1]

    what is this "winterizing" thing? lets see i run the carb dry on my johnson 2 stroke and put it on a stand in my garage. i guess if i want to use it at a moments notice i would have to put it on the boat, and hook up the gas tank. wow, that is a lot of work. long live the two stroke. i know this will get a rise out of some. let the fun begin

[Bub]

Thanks for all the responses. Bruce and perhaps others have experience with both brands.
I have spoken with the ePropulsion dealer who suggested the Spirit Evo.
If I understand it:
1 the Evo Remote prop does not need to be raised above the waterline while Sailing to prevent damage to the motor.
2 the wired remote can be mounted in any location desired by the owner.
3 if the owner later desires to operate with tiller that part can be separately mounted. ( I doubt I would do this as long as my use is on a Sunday Cat because the tiller version appears awkward mounted beside the Sunday Cat tiller, correct?)
Again, thanks for all the discussion and links provided
Bub

[bruce]

Here's my take.
1 - That's my understanding, but I would still plan on raising and tilting the motor out of the water, unless you want regen, to reduce drag and wear on the motor. I have had problems tacking when dragging the motor. Similar to trying to tack without some centerboard down for lateral resistance to pivot on.
2 - Yup, the remote can be anywhere in the cockpit and still be in wireless range with my Spirit. I'm not sure how long the back-up cable for the remote with the EVO is, but I see longer communication cables listed as accessories. The side-mount remote wasn't available when I bought mine. I mounted the remote on a piece of 3/4" StarBoard with a very soft silicone rubber non-skid on the bottom. It grips both gelcoat and varnished wood well, and doesn't slide around.
3 - Again, that's my understanding. As I mentioned, it was either/or when I bought mine. I do find it handy to steer with the motor around the dock. I just twist the motor and point it where I want to go. Easier with a tiller, but not difficult, and no second tiller in the way the rest of the time. I don't know how easy it is to switch from remote to tiller, and if it can be done on the fly as Jim does with his Torqeedo.

[Bub]

Thanks Bruce. Pictures very helpful.
In looking at my Sunday Cat it looks like the remote could be mounted midship on the rear deck outside the cockpit. Then sped and direction could be controlled from helm on either side.

Any thoughts on that?