Electric Outboards

[Maritimer67]

Right, it tilts normally once the tiller is out of the way. It will mean that you can't readily use the fixing pin, that some prefer, that locks the motor center lined. That requires removing the battery. But, I'm not trying to talk you out of it!

On our PC, the long shaft is best, and doubt you'd want to go shorter on a Sunday Cat. I use one up from the full down setting on the motor mount. If it gets choppy, I'll go full down to mitigate the cavitation. I had a short shaft on a Lehr 2.5 because that was all they offered. Too short.

I have been deliberating changing out the old Honda 5hp for an ePropulsion or Torqeedo on my Sun Cat, so this thread has been invaluable.  A website / blogger that I follow is Tom Ray of Tropical Boating https://www.tropicalboating.com/  who at one time had a Sun Cat and now has a Picnic Cat.  I?m not sure if he is a member of this group, but he had a recent post about adding a ePropulsion motor on his Picnic Cat.  He has some good pictures on the topic of shaft length and the tiller / motor bracket height, etc.  https://www.tropicalboating.com/2021/11/epropulsion-electric-outboard-on-a-picnic-cat

If you stroll through his website, you?ll also find some other excellent articles on mods that he made to his Sun Cat when he owned it.  Great website!

[bruce]

Yeah, Tom was active here, and on the TSBB, back when he owned a SC. He worked for Gulf Island Sails, a Com-Pac dealer, and was always a good resource for things Com-Pac and SC mods.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3902

The big issue with electric OBs is the prop diameter. With a high torque, low RPM motor, bigger is better. The prop diameter on my Honda 2 and Lehr 2.5 is 6-7", the Spirit is 11". The motor bulb on the new Torqeedo 1103 is much larger than the previous 1003C, and the Spirit models, old and new. Not sure of the new prop diameter. On the Honda 2, Torqeedo 1003C and the Spirit 1.0, the LS works fine. The Lehr 2.5 was only available in the SS, and cavitation in choppy conditions was a problem.

The clearance for the tiller has always been an issue with the Torqeedo and Spirit. I much prefer a remote throttle. I don't need a second tiller, and I can steer with the motor around the dock just fine without the tiller. The current Sprit 1.0 Plus isn't available with that option, but the Spirit Evo is. I'd have to check the Torqeedo 1103.

[Jim in TC]

I agree on the value of the remote throttle on our Torqueedo powered Sun Cat. I do slip the "regular" tiller on when coming into our slip, for extra maneuverability.

[Bob23]

Of particular interest to you electric propulsion guys is the recent Woodenboat Magazine article where an ePropulsion Pod Drive was installed in a Haven 12 1/2. I think this is very doable for our Compacs and would even work nicely for my 23, not that I'm about to make that leap just yet.
Cheers,
Bob23

[brackish]

Of particular interest to you electric propulsion guys is the recent Woodenboat Magazine article where an ePropulsion Pod Drive was installed in a Haven 12 1/2. I think this is very doable for our Compacs and would even work nicely for my 23, not that I'm about to make that leap just yet.
Cheers,
Bob23

Until recently I've never had any interest in electric propulsion considering it too expensive and range limited.  I recently toured a boat in my marina, and old Easterly 36 that had converted from diesel to electric inboard.  The cost was reasonable and the owner is very satisfied with the performance.  I looked up the size that would be required for a 23 and was shocked at how much electric had come down.  The package was small enough that I could keep my custom drawer cooler under the companionway steps with the motor being behind it.  I would, of course, have the additional expense of installing a cutlass bearing, packing gland, and shaft, but if I went electric I think that would be my choice.  Better weight distribution, clearing the clutter at the transom, and whisper quiet.

[bruce]

Of particular interest to you electric propulsion guys is the recent Woodenboat Magazine article where an ePropulsion Pod Drive was installed in a Haven 12 1/2.

We just got our print copy of WB 288 this week. I've always been fond of the Herreshoff 12 1/2. As a kid, I first sailed on a Bullseye, a full-keeled fiberglass version of the 12 1/2, and a Sailfish.

I agree with brackish, engineering-wise I'd prefer an electric inboard, especially if there was a diesel already, or the boat was designed to accommodate a diesel. If that wasn't the case, but there was room under the cockpit sole for a motor, shaft, et al, that could be accessed through a deck plate and didn't require a box build out at the helm, I'd go that way. Components more readily sourced and swapped out if a problem develops.

The electric pod design is very versatile, easy to mount and seal. All you're running are a cable or two through the hull, and the battery and controls can go anywhere without alignment issues. That said, having the motor and associated electronics in a bulb underwater, projecting unsupported from the hull, no matter how well it's sealed, seems less durable. A problem with the pod will probably require replacement of the single-sourced pod, likely with more supply issues than with the inboard option.

In this installation on the Haven 12 1/2, the keel-hung rudder precludes mounting the pod on the centerline aft of the keel. (I'm sure they could work around framing issues with the wooden keel.) Mounting the pod off to the side has too many issues for me. The pod is fully exposed to impact or a stray line. The drag of the pod and non-folding prop when sailing would be significant. Backing this thing will be a bear, at least you can steer with an outboard mounted off center. Outboards aren't pretty, but that would be my choice here.

An easily-mounted pod, located on the centerline behind the keel, could really do well in a lot of current boat designs I think. With associated equipment and cables, the whole system would be much less challenging to install than an inboard and prop, unless you were replacing as existing inboard.

For yucks, I ran a few prices. The 1 kW Pod Drive 1.0 Evo used in the article goes for $1,400. The E40 2048 Wh battery costs $1,000. The side mount control is another $500. Maybe a bit more for cables, although some are included. Most electric motors marketed for diesel replacement are larger of course, but I did find Electric Yacht lists a 2.5 kW for about $5,000, everything accept battery included. Motor mount and shaft components extra, if you're not replacing an inboard. Moving up, the price of the 3kW Pod Drive 3.0 Evo, is $2,800. The same battery will work, but the recommended larger 4086 Wh E80 battery would be $2,300. That's a 6 hp equivalent.

The Evo does provide hydrogeneration at speeds above 4 kts. Not really significant until you get to around 6 kts. At 10 kts they cut back to protect the gear.

[Mas]

    what is this "winterizing" thing? lets see i run the carb dry on my johnson 2 stroke and put it on a stand in my garage. i guess if i want to use it at a moments notice i would have to put it on the boat, and hook up the gas tank. wow, that is a lot of work. long live the two stroke. i know this will get a rise out of some. let the fun begin

Well have certainly been pondering the electrics but my 1987, 4 horse, 2 stroke Suzuki just keeps on gettin it! It's winter now so mostly armchair sailing and pretend buying all sorts of stuff! Who knows...and for the record I do not own a Sun Cat. Got a 16/2 but similar in size and displacement.

[Dave-in-RI]

Mercury's new 3.5hp electric:
https://plugboats.com/mercury-launches-avator-7-5e-electric-outboard-ces/

[bruce]

Yeah, they first announced this at the Miami Boat Show last year. Not shipping yet.

I like the battery design, and 1 kWh is a good balance for capacity and handling in an integral-battery design. Battery capacity and input power similar to the Spirit Evo and Torqeedo 1103C. Run times should be similar as well, be nice to see some projections. I assume the motor is direct drive and brushless, I don't see that confirmed. Not sure if the transverse flux design is similar or different to other models.

There do appear to options for a remote throttle, not sure if the tiller can be detached. I looks like it can be tilted to clear the coaming if it does need to remain attached.

At 59 lbs. with the battery it is a bit heavier, that shouldn't be a problem on the SC.
https://samerwebapp01apncus01.azureedge.net/mmgw-env-b/filer_public/78/e0/78e0c464-243a-4ce9-9a3e-a83ade11fc59/8m0215413_avator_75e_brochure.pdf

New models are always a risk, but Mercury is behind it. Sleek, modern design, pricing will be interesting to see. I look forward to learning more about it.

[Dave-in-RI]

Bruce, what's your best guess as a local for necessary HP equivalent for the river currents and winds/waves in the area. I'm 0.6 miles from the yacht club (via the river) and 3.0 miles total until the end of Rumstick. Gas would mean not worrying about tide direction, but electric has the quiet and ease of maintenance (+ easier remote hookups, and being able to go on electric only lakes). The fear would be not making headway into a current back up the river running home. Extra batteries are easier to add ($) than horsepower after the initial motor is bought. I suspect a Navy 3.0 (6hp) or Cruise (6hp) would be necessary, "guts" wise. It's not so much torque as power in a current. Those low bridges can really rush, and I'd want to blast under vs getting spun. Hoping the shoal keel will assist in tracking. On a lake or other calm water, I have no doubt on the 3-3.5hp (heck a trolling motor works), but I'm facing some pretty good pull out there.

[bruce]

I think you're right on track with your thinking. I don't have first hand experience on the Barrington and Warren Rivers that you would transit to get to Narragansett Bay. I have tried to find current observations for the Warren River, but all I can find readings from the Bay at the mouth of the Warren River, on Rumstick Shoal out of the flow of the river itself. Max currents there are about a kt, as would be expected.
https://charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/13224.shtml
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaacurrents/Predictions?id=ACT2196_1

This report from a Boston kayaking group mentions the significant current you observe.
http://www.bostonkayaker.com/cgi-bin/bkonekpage.cgi?pagekey=warren

There is a lot of small-boat commercial traffic in the area, as well as the Barrington Yacht Club you mention. I'd find some locals to talk to. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of currents around 3 kts. at max flood and ebb.
http://www.bostonkayaker.com/cgi-bin/bkonekpage.cgi?pagekey=warren

Electric motors produce a lot of torque at low rpm. As long as the motor was sized appropriately, there'd be no problem. I'll let others recommend what hp you might need on a SC, but I'm guessing that would be more in the 5-6 hp range for the current you could potentially face, maybe more. Obviously you'll be planning your trips with the current in mind.

The second issue is the range you can expect from your battery. You're looking at a 7 nm round trip to the mouth of the Warren River, plus a bit more to get out in the Bay. You won't be able to sail much if any in the Warren or Barrington Rivers, it's pretty tight. And then there are the bridges. The trick to range is to keep the speed down, but taking an hour to go the 3.5 nm may be frustrating. Throw in some extra consumption to fight a current and you need to make sure you have enough capacity. Best to have some extra too for light wind days when the wind can die.

We launch from Bullock Cove. No great tidal current, and about a nm to the Bay. Heading out I use about 50% power, for roughly 3.5 kts. When we raise sail we still have 85-90% battery capacity for any contingencies. We always have 50-75% remaining when we haul out. At full power we might get to 5 kts., most of that is wasted, hull speed is reached at about 65-70% power.

You may be able to go electric, but I wouldn't spend that money until I had the boat and some real first-hand experience. You're welcome to borrow my Honda 2 or Lehr 2.5 to test things out, as well as the Spirit if you wanted to try it.

[Dave-in-RI]

I was afraid you'd say that Yeah, I think gas is the way to go for the foreseeable future. SC I've got a deposit on has a 5hp Honda, so that'll be my first piece of data. I suspect I'll wind up keeping that on the boat and getting a trolling motor for auxiliary use on electric only lakes (like the ones near my in-laws in Maine). I could do no maintenance to it, throw it away and buy another one, do nothing to that one, throw it away and buy another, maybe once more, for less than the necessary electric and batteries. Not that I would, but it helps to put it in perspective. I remember my father bought a used but mint condition Chevette for $700 when I was a kid, and his coworker had bought a $30k suv. He told me when they walked out to their cars after work, he pointed to the lot and said I could fill 42 parking spaces with my Chevettes to your one car. I could drive it until it broke, throw it away (not even sell it), and take another. And do that 41 more times, to his one car. I try to live similarly (though yeah, if I was loaded I'd be getting the biggest electric that I could fit on the thing, ha).

[Jim in TC]

Thanks Bruce. Pictures very helpful.
In looking at my Sunday Cat it looks like the remote could be mounted midship on the rear deck outside the cockpit. Then sped and direction could be controlled from helm on either side.

Any thoughts on that?

Here is a photo of a remote mounted on a SunCat (not ours) that I always thought looked handy