Electrical modification

[brackish]

my 23 IV came with dual batteries, a Perko selector switch,  a Guest 2611A 5/5 charger hardwired to the AC panel.  For some reason the charger was direct wired and not wired through the breaker that was installed and labeled "Charger" .  Well the batteries are both old and dead, charger, at some time not known to me, stopped working and it is a potted unit that is throw away when that happens.

So new, simplified  plan.  Going to one group 29 deep cycle house battery; when I changed motors to the Sail Pro no longer any need for a separate start battery.  Going to install a new single bank charger, and this time wire it through the breaker.  Going to reuse the selector switch as just a disconnect for the DC side. 

Leaning toward NOCO Gen5X1 mounted marine charger.  Anyone have any experience with this charger?  Seemed to be out of stock and usually that is a good sign at least of its initial popularity.

Between the motor change a few years back and the elimination of the second battery, I will have reduced the weight by about a hundred lbs. back there where it is not needed.

[slode]

A 5 amp charger seems a bit on the small side for your application.  I guess if you never have less than 12-15 hours to complete a charge from 50% capacity it may be enough, but a 8-10 amp charger would be better sized.  I personally don't have experience with the NOCO line but it doesn't look as well built as the Promariner Prosport, or Blue Sea Systems budget chargers.

[brackish]

A 5 amp charger seems a bit on the small side for your application.  I guess if you never have less than 12-15 hours to complete a charge from 50% capacity it may be enough, but a 8-10 amp charger would be better sized.  I personally don't have experience with the NOCO line but it doesn't look as well built as the Promariner Prosport, or Blue Sea Systems budget chargers.

Since I had 5 amps per bank for the last ten years without a problem I think the size may be alright. Cruise profile is generally go out, for a night or two, come back to dock, plug it in and don't generally see it again for a week or longer. With regard to NOCO, I would agree when I was looking at their standard line which was all I could find initially, then found their Marine line and would consider it equal too or better than.  The Promariner latest gen 6 amp is under consideration because of the only on demand feature which they claim saves AC power.  My marina charges a fair bit for AC used.  It is about 20 bucks more but it's possible I could make that up in a few months if there truly is a difference in AC use at full charge.

[wes]

Brackish - to charge the group 27 battery on my 19 I use a Noco Genius GEN 1, which is a 10 amp unit. $129.95 from Defender. It has worked flawlessly for ten years, and has the smarts to keep the battery topped off without overcharging. I think it's a good compromise between cost and performance.

There is no important reason to get a 10 amp vs 5 amp other than charging time. My boat has an usual amount of electronics for a 19, including chart plotter, and I wanted to be sure I'd get a full recharge overnight.

RC Collins has written some great info about chargers on his blog site marinehowto.com.

Wes

[brackish]

Brackish - to charge the group 27 battery on my 19 I use a Noco Genius GEN 1, which is a 10 amp unit. $129.95 from Defender. It has worked flawlessly for ten years, and has the smarts to keep the battery topped off without overcharging. I think it's a good compromise between cost and performance.

There is no important reason to get a 10 amp vs 5 amp other than charging time. My boat has an usual amount of electronics for a 19, including chart plotter, and I wanted to be sure I'd get a full recharge overnight.

RC Collins has written some great info about chargers on his blog site marinehowto.com.

Wes

Thanks Wes, I was looking for that web site, remembered that there was an article on battery location and orientation.  Going to one battery I have a choice on orientation, so will change from fore and aft to port to stbd.

Good to know about the reliability of the NOCO.  The GenX is replacing the line that you have, but they are currently still available and priced right.  Your model is about $80 on Amazon, and the 4 amp can be had for about $60.  Very tempting to go that route.

I too, have a lot of load for a 23, with installed chartplotter, stereo, VHF, Tiller pilot and pressure water (one of the best things I ever did).  But I've never had a real capacity problem.  I've converted my lights inside and out to LED, and in the cabin I mostly use LED Puck lights that are placed in areas I need to work or see in.  Those thiings are great and really supplement the two cabin lights.  Usually just pitch the AA batteries about every six months, but have never had one go out completely.  Also have hard wired red LED courtesy lights in the cockpit lockers and cabin walkway down low.  No night vision problems but can see to get around .

[wes]

It's not really germane to your 23 question, but for my 27 I installed a Sterling ProCharge as recommended by RC. I have $600 worth of new Trojan AGM batteries and want them to have a long and happy life. The Sterling is a very sophisticated unit which supports custom charge voltages to exactly match the battery manufacturer's specs, as well as ambient temperature compensation. It has performed beautifully but would be massive overkill for my 19.

Wes

[curtisv]

My battery and charging is described at http://localweb.occnc.com/remote-access/projects_E_C.html.  I have one 12V 255Ah AGM 8D under the companionway stairs.  This moves the weight a bit forward which is good for the CP23.  The battery does weigh 160 lbs so it is difficult to move around.  Sole means of charging was one *tiny* 6watt solar panel.  I used a solar charger since constant sun and no load could put too much voltage on the battery.  The only real loads used for any amount of time were the NAV lights or anchor light.  Also fixed mount GPS and speed/depth but didn't use those a lot.  The down side to this is if the battery got discharged, say to 60%, it would take forever for such a small solar panel to recharge.  So a battery charger would be needed (or larger panel).

In a sense this worked great.  I installed it in 2005.  The solar panel was on the stern rail, summer and winter.  The battery was float charged all winter.  The battery didn't go dead until last sprimg but I didn't launch so still dead.  15 years is almost unheard of for a lead acid battery but it was probably very gentle charging and discharging, rarely discharging to any depth and not leaving the battery discharged for more than a week (trip with night sailing or need for anchor light, then recharge when home).  Normal lifespan is 6-8 years if well treated though 3-5 years (or less) is not uncommon.

I will probably replace this battery with Li-ion.  The reason is 255 Ah AGM costs $600 roughly and can be discharged to 60% without losing longevity so you get 40% usable, less if you charge/discharge repeatedly over a few days.  Thats about 100 Ah usable.  A 12V 100Ah Li-ion can be had for $899 (last I looked).  This is a usable 100Ah and you can leave the battery in a low state of charge (but not fully discharged) and not harm it.  These batteries last much longer than AGM.  I bought Li-ion for another boat from Lithium Battery Products in Florida.

The LBP batteries have internal BMS so difficult to harm them.  The 100Ah can charge and discharge up to 75A continuous though lower charge rate is recommended.  With a bigger solar panel (I happen to come across a 100W flexible panel) and a good charge controller (I can use the one I have, but I'm partial to Morningstar) this should all work well.  There would be no need to get the battery back up to high state of charge quickly to preserve life since Li-ion are fine if you just let the sun add charge back slowly over the course of a week or more.  Another thing is the 12V 100Ah Li-ion battery is group 31 and weighs 27 lbs, a lot lighter than lead acid.

Curtis

btw - yes I know that web site hasn't been updated in over a decade.

[brackish]

btw - yes I know that web site hasn't been updated in over a decade.

Well yes, but I got a lot of good ideas from that site. For instance, I didn't have a table, wanted one, so built one using just that picture.  Hmm, sliding into cleats sounds good but did not want to block my solar vent, nor take one inch of headspace from that forward cabin, so found a spot over the port side sliding stove, mounted the cleats and the table slides in there in what would normally be wasted space and it works fine.  And the list goes on.

I'm reminded by your site that, although I've shared all my projects as they were completed, I really should put them all in one place as you have.

[moonlight]

WOW.
This has very little to do with the task at hand, but wow.
An 8D on a 23'?  Huge.

In practical applications, we usually replace 8D's with 3 group 27's or Group 31's wired in parallel, so when it comes to moving the massive battery 160#+ we can do it in three steps of 60~70# each. 

On another note, for those interested in adding their own external BMS and setting up their own strings, I have a set of 100Ah LiFePO4 3.2V cells, so you can set up as many 100Ah batteries as you like with four cells.  You can even wire them 2P4S (2 in parallel, thence 4 in series) to make 200Ah cells, but as the BMS is supposed to monitor each individual cell, well, individually ... it sort of defeats the purpose.  BUT LOTS of your portable tools 18~24V are run with little cells in parallel and series together.  It's not rocket surgery nor brain science here.

[curtisv]

WOW.
This has very little to do with the task at hand, but wow.
An 8D on a 23'?  Huge.

In practical applications, we usually replace 8D's with 3 group 27's or Group 31's wired in parallel, so when it comes to moving the massive battery 160#+ we can do it in three steps of 60~70# each. 

The group 27 that came with the boat was clearly too small.  I went away for a week or two at a time, sailed at night at times with NAV lights and some instruments, at least depth and speed.  Other times I anchored out where having the anchor light on was a good idea.  With just a small solar panel that battery got deeply discharged at times and died quickly.  When I looked to go bigger two group 31 or a 4D or 8D would fit in the same box and the best Ah/$ was the 8D by quite a bit.  It was a chore to install by myself but I got creative.

Since installing it the battery got heavier.  Or I got older, not sure which it is.

Curtis