FF2 instalation

[jfair1954]

Good day
I sail a CP23-3/ 1990
My FF2 is a mix of original components from the 90's and a more recent cup and BB purchased in 2012.
I had not sailed the boat since 2014 until now in 2020.I understand I need to expect some unexpected issues and, yes, they do come one by one these days...
The mast was stepped and furler secured to its chainplate on the bowsprit.
Now, when I started to set up for the sail to be hoisted, I noticed that the drum did not turn freely over the turnbuckle even if the luff support pin had been installed to prevent the luff from reaching down on the turnbuckle...
When I lifted the luff in order to look down iside the drum assembly, I noticed that the drum/luff support pin assembly were sliding down below  the top of the turnbuckle.Obviously, the luff sits dead on top of the turnbuckle...
Never had this one before...so is it that I should only screw/unscrew the turnbuckle until it sits lower ?
Boat is on a mooring...Waves are rocking the boat  . Awkward to be on the bow playing with the furler drum!!!
FYI , yes, the assembly is old ( so am I ) and it will be replaced ( 2021 ) but I would just like to save this season wich is very short in my area ( Habs Land )
Tks in advance for your input
JFR

[jfair1954]

I am curious if anybody would have had a two cents idea for a solution to my CDI FF2 problem...I have stopped trying to figure it out and sailed with the main sail only but besides drifting I do net get much sailing out of the boat.
Again,the problem is that the cup-drum-support pin asembly , once installed, fall lower( at the support pin level ) than the turnbuckle head causing the luff to reach and sit on the turnbuckle. The cup-drum-support pin assembly should  be high enough so that the support pin would be higher in order to stop the luff before it reaches the turnbuckle . I have been trying different turnbuckle adjustements and i am getting no where.
There were no changes to the rigging since the last times I had rigged this furler and it had worked perfectly.
Any comments will be much apreciated
JFR

[wes]

Suggest you call CDI for support. Www.sailcdi.com. They are in Winnipeg, Central time zone.

[brackish]

Agree with Wes.  I didn't respond because it was not clear to me what the problem was.  I assume you have the manual, if not it is downloadable on the CDI site and it is full of pictures and diagrams.  Is the problem that the bottom of the luff of the sail is too low? If so are you sure you don't have a kink or restriction in either the halyard or the luff extrusion and are not able to get it to the top.  I have a slight twist in my luff extrusion and have to put sailkote on the luff bolt rope and can get it to the top with a lot of effort.

[jfair1954]

Thanks to both of you!
As much as I try to be clear, I am naturally french speaking / writing. It may now and then translate to to english somehow distorted...
I had contacted CDI in Winnipeg. They are more familiar with the more modern versions then the older ones of the CDI's
I do have the FF2 manual updated version 2012.
In my explanation, when I write " luff " , I mean the Luff extrusion ( A in the manual ).
When I lower the furling drum assembly ( B in the manual ) into position, the hole in the drum throat , where the support pin is inserted ( C in the manual ) falls lower than the top of the turnbuckle. So when I lower the luff extrusion, the support pin is not preventing the luff extrusion from sitting on the turnbuckle body( as shown in page 2 of the manual )
Also, it is mentionned that a thrust washer( M ) may have been knocked out of position( paragraph 11,page 8 )...The only washer that I see is one that sits loose over the Bal Bearing assembly.If this is the one ( M ), I do not see how it can be replaced inside the cavity of the furling drum.It is to large in circumference and has a wide hollow center...Am I missing out on something there
It is also mentionned I should install a washer over the T-bolt and then extra washers...( page 7, paragraph 9 )...would that make a difference ?
Is your boat  equipped with FF2
Any comments are welcome so I can get out of this...
Thanks

[Bristol14]

A picture of the problem may help to sort this out. I have an older CDI unit on my ?87 23-2 and I?m pretty sure it?s original. The only issues I?ve had were when I changed to a bigger furling line and it jammed inside the drum.

[jfair1954]

Would have liked to attach picture but the website denies all attempts for sending picture even compressed
I have tried Macbook,Iphone, Tablet.   
jfr

[brackish]

Would have liked to attach picture but the website denies all attempts for sending picture even compressed
I have tried Macbook,Iphone, Tablet.   
jfr

You have to resize them not compress them.  When I pull up a picture and hit options it gives me one for resize with several size options and I choose one that is smaller than the max size listed of 1024KB.  Then go through the process of "attachments and other options" selecting the resized version of the picture.  You can try it in the "test" section of the forum.

I do have an FF2, however it came installed on the boat when I bought it, and although I've had the mast up and down dozens of times, I've never disassembled the furler, just released the pin from the bowsprit fitting.  The only maintenance I've done is replacing the furler line and there were no issues there.

[jfair1954]

Tks for your support
I have resized the picture...hoping for it to go through
you can see the support pin and the turnbuckle head.The pin lays aprox 3/4 inc lower. And it is unlikely i can l can lower the turnbuckle cause i will run out of thread.
Just like you i never had problems with this FF2 but this year, I had a boatyard stepping the mast with their crane and they do not allow me to be on deck ...they had their own man on deck until all standing rigging was secured...I remember him spendig time on the bowsprit while trying to secure the furler to chainplate. The guy seemed to have been struggling ...maybe something hapenned there
Do you have the cup with the ball bearing unit??
jfr

[Bristol14]

Maybe I?m not understanding the issue, but have you tried adjusting the backstay or the bobstay?

[brackish]

No, mine is the base unit that does not have the ball bearings.

If I am beginning to understand the luff extrusion is coming down too low and interfering with the top of the turnbuckle which restricts the rotation of the furling drum.  It seems that possibly either the washers on the T-bolt are missing allowing the the turnbuckle to pull up the distance they are supposed to displace, or the thrust washer is missing allowing the furler drum to sit too far down on the bearing.  That is providing you do not have an abnormally long turnbuckle body.

What was the timing of the replacement parts, before the storage period or after?  Could either of the items mentioned above have been left out when the reassembly was done? I really can't see any other possibility.  The whole idea is to keep the furler drum assembly high enough so that the luff pin will be high enough above the turnbuckle to provide rotational clearance.

I have no idea how the ball bearing option is made but it they have top balls in a race, could the balls have fallen out dropping the thrust washer and all above it down? 

[jfair1954]

Some answers and some questions
YOU:If I am beginning to understand the luff extrusion is coming down too low and interfering with the top of the turnbuckle which restricts the rotation of the furling drum.
ME : Exactly
YOU:It seems that possibly either the washers on the T-bolt are missing allowing the the turnbuckle to pull up the distance they are supposed to displace, or the thrust washer is missing allowing the furler drum to sit too far down on the bearing.
ME : I did not put any between tbolt and strap...the gap is minimal.Maybe the thikness of one washer only.I think I can make up some other way
YOU : thrust washer is missing allowing the furler drum to sit too far down on the bearing.
ME : I have the thrust washer and as you say it had come out from the inside throat of the drum.It was just sitting loose over the bearing housing.Yesterday I pushed it back up as much as I could inside the drum but it does not seem to snap on any holding...it just slides back out and down over the bearing again...is this thrust washer supposed to hang to the inside of the throat and how ? Maybe I just dont push it high enough ?
As per the turnbuckle it is the same one since I had the boat .
When I bought the boat, I had an original drum-cup assembly from 1990...Changed the cup only in 2012 for the one with BB and had sailed it 2 seasons. Boat was on the dry after that until now.( 2014-2020 ).Parts and pieces may have been loosening, lost, but as far as I can remember, everything is there.

BALL BEARING: when I first came to instal the jib this year, I accidentaly knocked the BB casing and the bearings rolled into my hands.All was replaced . It did not cause this situation since when this happened it was after I noticed their was a problem with drum assembly . It came accidentally while I was fiddling with the turnbuckle.

Yesterday , I loosend backstay, bob stay, droped the boom to relieve tension, secure the mast on the fwd balcony, and loosened the furler, detached it from it's chainplate on the bowsprit, and rebalanced the turnbuckle both ends with equal ( or almost ...) number of turns.It now gives me some take that I can play with to see if I find the exact balance for the turnbuckle to be screwed lower.
Boat being on a wet mooring,with a NE gusting at 20kn, I obviously had fun,dropped a couple things in the water. 2 clevis,many cotter rings, 1 vice grip and a long nose. Have you ever tried to fit over your bow,on your stomach,trough the balcony stanchions, with your life vest on ? When I took it of , it too went flying to the wind...

Today I am going back . I hve to replace the clevis ( had to settle with one that was too small after loosing my spares ) Will attack the thrust washer - drum assembly, and will take more thread on the turnbuckle but in the end I feel the front stay could be too tight and pulling the mast FWD ??
How tight should it be...??
jfr

[brackish]

drum assembly, and will take more thread on the turnbuckle but in the end I feel the front stay could be too tight and pulling the mast FWD ??
How tight should it be...??

500 lbs by measurement with a strain gage such as a Loos gage.  That is minimum, can be tighter if all the components can stand it.  hard to measure the forestay because the furler gear is on it, but you can measure the backstay, forestay should be the same.

Some people say a slight rake forward is good to reduce excessive weather helm, don't know if that is true or not.

Seems you may have to adjust your turnbuckle so that the bottom half is threaded in to the maximum or so that it bottoms out as low as it can go in the cup/bearing assembly.

[jfair1954]

PLS see adj picture
This is the assembly. You can see that the drum takes it's place in the cup where it should.We can see a very small gap like 1/8 of an inch...if my memory does not fail me, it has always been like this.So it cant be that the furling drum sits too far down on the bearing...if it sat higher , then it would be blocking the cup window and line could not reel in or out properly
jfr

[brackish]

I see,  if you can't raise the furler then the only choice is to lower the turnbuckle by adjusting the lower threaded portion to eliminate as much of the stick out as possible.  Past that, I'm at a loss.