CP 19 or 23 - Which Boat?

[BamaSailor]

I currently sail a Hobie 16 that I am learning on and am searching for my first keel boat. Have narrowed the search down to a CP 19 and a 23-3. The 19 is ready to sail, the 23 needs a little work, nothing I can't handle in a couple of weekends. I will be trailering the boat. Which boat should I buy? Why?

[Renae]

I assume you mean trailering occasionally to a new semi-permanent location.  Neither is a good trailer sailer. 

[crazycarl]

the 19 is very trailer-able.  i'm 60 y.o., 5'8", and 175lbs.  i've towed our 19 from northern illinois to florida several times, canada, central and northern wisconsin, and sourthern illinois.  i raise and lower the mast alone without any type of device, just stand on the cabin roof and lift it up.  i've towed it to florida with a 3.7L Jeep Liberty, 4.3L Chevy 1500, and now a 5.7L GMC Sierra.  i wouldn't hesitate to tow a 23 with our current GMC, but i would probably need to rig a mast raising device. 

[wes]

Love my 19 and I've trailered her all over NC, as far north as Kerr Lake on the VA border and as far south as Savannah. It's a heavy boat; on the high end of what I'd consider trailerable. It takes me about 45 minutes to rig and launch, and the same to break down at the end of the day. I'm not too popular with the power boaters at the ramp, and I have to choose ramps carefully. I can raise the mast alone, but every time I stop and think carefully about the cost of orthopedic surgery.

I've never owned a 23, but personally I think I wouldn't go any larger than the 19 for regular trailering. The 23 is undoubtedly a great boat if you can mostly keep her in a slip or on a mooring.

That's my two cents.

Wes

[5monkeys]

I trailer sail my 19, pulling it with a Toyota 4Runner.
Without some kind of mast raising system, I'm not sure I would do it by myself. Inserting the pin below the roller furling has been a challenge at times. So I've always been glad to have someone along to lend a hand with that. Perhaps, I haven't done it enough and others may have a trick I haven't employed yet. That said I don't know if stepping is any harder on a 23.
I probably wouldn't want to pull a 23 with my current truck, but I wouldn't refuse more space on-board.
I don't know if storage/cost is an issue, but looking around here in Northern VA I've found that 25' overall length on trailer is the cutoff between regular and oversize the 19 should just squeak in.
Either way, I don't think you can go wrong.

[jimhuber2]

If you were staying put in one place, the 23 hands down. Either one is going to be substantially more work than you are used to with a Hobie 16. I started with a Hobie 16 and my first keel boat was an O'day 22 which was easy to trailer and set-up. Got used to leaving her in a slip and got spoiled with climb on and go. Moved to a CP-23 which I loved. She stayed in a slip. Always said the only way I would get anything else was if I found a CP-27 in great shape which I did --- thanks Charlie!! She definitely stays put in a slip. I wish I still had my Hobie to use as a travel boat.         Jim

[crazycarl]

raising the mast is easy.  after placing it in the crutch i run the main halyard through a block attached to the fore stay plate.  the working end of the halyard is rapped around a cleat on the starboard side of the mast. with the backstay slackened, i lift the mast until vertical and pull the main halyard tight and secure it around a cleat attached to the port side of the mast.  this holds the mast up while i go forward and install the pin.  reverse the procedure to lower the mast. 

i have even done this while on the water to get under low bridges.

[5monkeys]

Thanks Crazycarl, I'm gonna try that in the spring!

[kickingbug1]

im  a witness. ive seen carl raise and lower his mast with little or no effort.  I raise the mast on my Catalina 18 in a similar fashion.

[5monkeys]

it's too bad it's 35 Degree's with snow in the forecast, I'm itching to do this now.

[Renae]

Love my 19 and I've trailered her all over NC, as far north as Kerr Lake on the VA border and as far south as Savannah. It's a heavy boat; on the high end of what I'd consider trailerable. It takes me about 45 minutes to rig and launch, and the same to break down at the end of the day. I'm not too popular with the power boaters at the ramp, and I have to choose ramps carefully. I can raise the mast alone, but every time I stop and think carefully about the cost of orthopedic surgery.

45 minutes up and down on a 19 is booking, and I compliment you on your process and skill.  Most people will take more than that. 

Still, I don't get the draw for either the 19 or 23 if the intent is, in general, to put in, sail, and trailer out at the end of the day.  Several days?  Sure--the extra cabin space would be welcome. 

For a single day though, the Suncat, Sunday Cat, and Picnic Cat really can't be beat.  I have the SC because an enclosed port-a-potty and shaded storage space makes sense for me.  I can nap in the berths if desired, but this honestly just doesn't happen on a 4-6 hour day sail.  Maybe it's my Minnesota-shortened season, but I'm not spending my precious sailing time asleep below.  The cabin gives me privacy when I need it, plenty of room to store valuables and coolers and keeps the cockpit totally free and open.

Roger, the PO of my SC, camped her all the time.  The interior is similar to a 3 person pup tent.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a 23...and a slip to keep her in. 

[brackish]

I have ten years experience with a 23 and zero with the 19.  I thought I would trailer more but mostly stay in a slip at my home marina.  For me, and I've put a lot of thought into the process, it takes about an hour and a half to get ready for a tow and that includes the mast raising and launch at the destination.  The  mast raising takes only about twenty minutes but I have a very good, single handed, no trailer involvement mast raising system.  I usually raise and lower the mast while on the water, easier and no ladder climbing.  I easily tow with a Toyota Tacoma that has 6500 lb. rating but would not want to do with less.  The reason I don't tow more often has as much to do with age as anything.  Pushing 73, I still can do it but am much less inclined.  If I were much younger, I'm sure I would be more inclined.

Looking at the 19 I don't think you gain much in the way of travel ease, but you might be losing a lot with regard to overnight boat camping if that is your plan. 

The two boats have slightly different sailing characteristics because of different designers.  The 23 is a bit more tender with less initial stability but has a very high ultimate stability.  The 19, with a slightly flatter hull design has a higher initial stability but might be slightly more susceptible to a knock down.  In normal conditions, the 19 might be more appealing to crew who would not like that quick roll in a gust.  A Hobie Cat sailor would not care about that, I used to race them many years ago.

If my assumption is correct and you are in Alabama, depending on where, you might be close to me.  You are welcome to come sail my 23 with me if that would help with your decision.  I'm in Northeast MS. not far from the Alabama line and home port is Bay Springs Lake, on the TennTom.

[moonlight]

I too picked up on the supposition that our candidate is in Alabama.
But I have a wildly different opinion towards his initial question.
In full support of what looks to be youth and agility, skip both the 19 and the 23 and come buy my 25 instead!!!
My kids have voted, they want me to really sell the 25 and put the money towards refitting my first boat, an Islander 36...

[Tim Gardner]

ML, I cross my fangers at your Coon-a$$ suggestion and recommend you reprimand sprightly, your chilren in the most forthrightly mannah.

Do you Sir, understand  me?

Tg