Basic questions from "newbie"

[Byron of Bedford]

First, "THANKS" I so appreciate this forum and the generosity of folks sharing ideas and and experience!

I'm new to cat boats and Compac. Just bought a 2011 Sun Cat. Have yet to get in water. I'm getting her ready now.
Question 1) Opinions on 3 vs 6 gallon gas tank? 3 looks a lot more manageable. Can't find  6 that will fit but saw a comment on the forum saying he had one. Recommendations? Also, how do you run the fuel line? How long does line need to be?

Question 2: Anyone actually weighted a Sun Cat on a Magic Tilt trailer? I am planning on pulling mine with a Kia Sorento AWD that has towing capacity of 2,000 lbs. Using spec sheets I'm at 1,920 with boat motor trailer and battery. Getting pretty close to my Kia's capacity.

Question 3: Battery advice? Looking at Interstate 35 amp hr battery that is deep cycle, AGM, small and light, only weighs  about 25 pounds. Costs $90 on Amazon. Other consideration is a jump starter gizmo from Habor Freight. Only 14 amp hours. Costs about $40 on sale. All I'm running are lights. A Sonarphone fish finder for depth info, a fan and cabin light. I plan to spend a few nights at a time on the boat.

Question 4: This one is really bone head but how do you secure bumpers to the boat while at dock. I think the only cleats are 2 aft and one on the foredeck in the center.

Question: 5 I'm guessing no one uses a Windex wind indicator and I assume it's because of the gaff rigging. Is that right?

Question 6 I will probably add a cockpit reefing system. Have read many threads on approaches. Is there a kit of some kind? Do you tap holes and use screws or rivet? Is there a YouTube on this somewhere? I'm kind of lost.

Finally question 7... just looking for preferences regarding PFD. Any one in love with what they have? Why?

Ok...Thanks in advance for the help.

[captronr]

Hi Byron,

Welcome to the forum and a new boat!

I'll take a stab at a couple of questions:

1.  A three gallon tank should be fine, unless you plan on crossing the atlantic (grin).  If you have a newer 4 stroke, they are miserly on fuel.  Plus smaller tank keeps fresher gas in the tank.  My Eclipse has a fuel locker and small flap opening to run the line out.  Unknown on your model.

7.   I have and like the auto inflate PFDs.  Have four of them.  Light/comfortable.  If I'm in the water loading the boat, I wear a tradition ski type PFD.  PFD go on when we first get on the boat and are the last thing off.  Being older, I've known guys who fall off while in the slip.  Hit the dock, and it gets ugly real fast.

Welcome.
Ron

[PJ]

I will answer a couple also...

Both my SageCat and Horizon Cat boats have wind indicators.  Little less useful on the Sage as it has a high tech swivel mast so she can sail closer to the wind.  There still is value in my opinion to seeing the apparent wind.

For lifevest I am in a different school of thought, I too put on the life vest first, and remove last, but I use a modern guide boat style pfd.  Unlike the ski jackets, the guide jackets are designed for comfort to be worn all day.  I do not have worry about vest inflation, co2 cartridges, etc.  It also gives me room for my standard horizon radio, and my knife that I always wear.  Here is the one I have in high vis green...

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5034-115/Fulcrum-Guide-PFD

[Zephyros]

Hi Byron, welcome to the forum and Sun Cat ownership.

Question 1)  I have a 3 gallon tank and it is fine, depending where you sail it is plenty to get in and out of the dock. That said, I never let it go below half tank in case a storm comes up and I have to motor a long way in.

Question 2)  The Magic Tilt trailer is around 500 pounds, with the Sun Cat empty at around 1,500 pounds, toss in the gear and outboard and you get maybe another 300-500 pounds, for a full up weight of around 2,300 to 2,500. I also tow with a 2017 Kia Sorento AWD with the 3.3 V-6 engine, my rated capacity is 5,000 pounds. What year and engine size is your Sorento, if you think you are at 2,000 pounds limit you either have a 4 cylinder or and early manual that did have a printing mistake for the 2016 / 2017 models that incorrectly listed the tow capacity at 2,000 / 3,500.

Good Sorento towing post here:
https://www.kia-forums.com/2016-sorento/182177-sorento-2016-v6-towing-capacity-5000lb.html

Question 4) I have large 6 inch diameter bumpers, I hang one on the amidships cleat and one on the stern cleat, I then tie up off those two cleats as well since it brings the cockpit area closest to the dock.

Question 5)  I and others have Windex's mounted to the top of the mast, I've seen both mounts used, side clip and top/flat mount base style. I purchased an extra mount and tried it on the bow to be able to see the Windex when the Bimini is raised but the wind is to turbulent there and and the Windex just flops back and forth.

Question 6)  Buy the "Byron of Bedford" special custom kit that includes the exact parts you want, in addition to the forum posts read these:

Good post here on Sun Cat reefing mods:
https://www.tropicalboating.com/2010/04/modifying-my-sun-cats-rigging

And make sure you download a copy of the Catboat Sailing Manual:
www.go-embedded.com/Sailingmanual.pdf

Question 7)  Like captronr said, Inflatable PFD's are the only way to go, sitting in the hot sun you barely know they are there and let you follow his great tip about keeping them on at the dock.

[Jim in TC]

We are one season in on a Sun Cat so we are pretty new to the boat (and to cats in general).
1. Agree that 3 gallons is quite a bit of fuel. We use (and love) a Torqueedo electric now, but on our WW Potter (smaller yet and lighter than a Sun) we had a small 4 stroke motor that held maybe a quart or 2 of fuel in a built in tank, and it would go many miles in any weather. There is lots of advice in various parts of this forum on motor size and configuration.
2. My brother the Ford engineer once told me that towing specs are extremely conservative. Testing is done under the most demanding circumstances and one can more or less count on pushing the stated limits. That said, if you are towing long distances or in difficult places (steep hills, hot weather, like that) you should adhere more closely to the specs. We tow our loaded SunCat a few slow, flat miles to a ramp to launch with a Prius C, which the manual advises you should not haul bicycles on a rack on the back. We figure gravity is on our side launching, and haven't yet tried to retrieve with the C...
3. We put a pair of Duracell Ultra 35 AH batteries aboard, purchased for similar cost from the local Batteries+ store, weighing in at under 25# each. These seemed a good compromise in size, price, wt and capacity for our needs. Unfortunately, I can't really advise on how well they worked since our battery use was far more limited than expected, with day-sails only, from a marina with power. So only used for some very limited interior lighting, and cell phone and other small electronics charging and charged right back up. I have heard of people using the jump start gizmos but I would not expect much from them for this purpose. They really are designed for a big burst of starting power, not a trickle for general use. We did take the precaution of changing out all lights bulbs - interior and running- for LED's and with all light blazing, the batteries seem to hold nicely in our tests.
4. We hang fenders from a handrail on the cabin top, using straps that clip on and are sized just right.
6. We don't have anything fancy for reefing, but have practiced a time or two and can suggest at least becoming proficient (which we have not yet achieved) with whatever system you land on. We are far quicker to put a reef in before setting out than ever before, figuring it is easier to shake a reef out than put one in during a blow.
7. I have been a bit lax with PFD's, and plan to use one more faithfully next season. First mate never leaves port without, and is as happy with the old, cheap orange mae west as any other she has tried, and in my limited use I prefer it to the nice kayak PFD we have for other boating needs. 

[Byron of Bedford]

Thanks for all the input! (I'm not sure of this goes to each of you or not...assume so.)

1) 3 Gallon tank it is. Thanks! I ordered a 6' hose which seems the standard.

2) My Kia is a 2017 4 cyl. AWD. Definitely rated at 2,000 lbs. My trailer supposedly weighs 320lbs, boat 1500lbs, Tomatsu 4 hp 57.5lbs, spare tire 10lbs?, 3 gal of gas and tank 22lbs, Battery 50 lbs (worst case) = 1960 This is all from manufacturer's specs. I'm taking the boat tomorrow to actual weigh it. That said, THANKS for Prius experience and engineering perspective. I am thinking I will load all my gear in the car and I should be fine. I am only driving 23 miles to Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia (Any Sun Cats there you know of?). If all goes well I might make the drive to the Chesapeake Bay which is 200 miles away. My son has a big V8 Toyota which I used to tow the boat to Virginia so I will probably use that for any long hauls. I'll report back after I weigh it.

3) Yes! to LED bulbs. Reduces the amps by 90%. Ordered 5 on Amazon for less than $4. I'll let you know how bright they are. I am now heading toward a Duracell deep cycle regular battery from Sam's that is rated at 90 Amp hrs for about $60. It's heavier but cheaper and has more than twice the amps.

4) Thanks for hand rail and cleat advice. I'll try them both. I was wondering about the handrail and whether it would work.

5) Thanks for reefing links. I had seen both of these. Very helpful.

6) PFD's are definitely a personal preference. I appreciate the referrals and will look into both. I bought an inflatable PFD belt (MTI) on ebay for $29. I got it because it was very small and light and could be kept on board in case I have a crew and need extra. It costs $25 for a Co2 cartridge
which is pretty expensive seems to me, but obviously not if a life is at stake. Seems a trade off of $ for the comfort and connivence of the inflatables. Still looking for "my" perfect PFD.

Finally, I am thinking of setting up a Youtube channel for Compac Sun Cats where video's could be posted by SC owners. Has anyone done this and do you think there would interest? I sure could have and still could have used more visual learning about how to equip and sail this boat. Just thinking... Your thoughts?

[Zephyros]

Recheck your "Gross Combination Weight (GCWR)" it generally takes your 2,000 pounds and combines it with your vehicle GVWR. All that said, it does not matter if the gear is in the boat or car, other then using it to balance tongue weight.

Inflatable PFD belt: These tend not to work when you hit your head on the dock or boat as your tumbling into the water and your knocked silly or unconscious. Better to have an auto inflatable style around your neck/chest, better chance to keep you afloat until you come to (these are not kyacks where they just gently roll you into the water).

Youtube channel for Compac Sun Cats: Great idea, but since the Compac Cat Rig boat is somewhat of a niche market, not an over abundance of users. I've watched pretty much every Sun Cat video on Youtube and you will see they are limited, as not that many people care to post them. That said, watch all the ones you can find as they are helpful.

[Maritimer67]

Welcome to the SunCat life!

I've only owned my 2008 SunCat for 6 months, but I live in FL, so I've had a chance to sail her a bit more often.
In addition to the answers you've already received, here are my comments:
1. Gas tank - 3 gal with a 4hp four stroke is more than adequate.  The biggest problem you'll have is stale fuel.  Also, regarding how to route the fuel line, I run mine through the overboard drain fitting (with the rubber flap) from the fuel locker to the motor.  The PO did it that way and I liked the idea.
2. You'll be fine with your tow vehicle.  As someone else mentioned, tow ratings are very conservative.
3.  The battery compartment is set up well for a deep cycle battery like you've decided to buy.  More amps is better IMHO.  I've added a 20w solar panel to keep my battery charged while on the trailer and can be used if overnighting.
4.  Fenders - I tie the forward one to the handrail and the aft one to the cleat used for the spinlocks.  This puts them at just about at the beamier parts of the hull.
5.  I mounted a Windex on the mast - very helpful.
6.  I haven't added a cockpit reefing system, but I did add a two leg lazy jack system.  After a few outings raising and lowering the sail in some wave / swell action, I found the gaff flipping around annoying, so I've added lazy jacks.  Very useful and worthwhile. I did mine for about $100, following advice from others on the forum.
7.  Inflatable PFD - automatic inflation type, especially if you sail alone.  PFD's do no good in the locker - wear it.

Have fun - it's a great boat.  And if you need a new boat cover or mainsail cover, see my previous posts on the topic.  I had mine made with special mods at the canvas shop that makes them for Hutchins.

[Jim in TC]

3.  The battery compartment is set up well for a deep cycle battery like you've decided to buy.  More amps is better IMHO.  I've added a 20w solar panel to keep my battery charged while on the trailer and can be used if overnighting.

I have been debating solar panel size for topping up and 20w is at the low end of my considerations. Do you have enough experience to comment on effectiveness? (We have 2- 35 ah batteries, but would also use that battery power in a pinch for the Torqueedo electric motor).

[Maritimer67]

Hi Jim,
Sorry, no experience yet, as I just got the panel and charge controller this week.  I decided on the 20w because of it's small footprint and the fact that for the most part, it's only going to be a "battery tender" for my application. On a good day I might get 8 - 10 amps out of it, which is more than enough for replacing amps I use and keeping the battery topped up.   I have an Interstate group 24 deep cycle battery (@ 80 amps).

[philb Junkie19]

Byron, your PFD question generated a comment and wider question that I posted on the lounge page
Phil

[Byron of Bedford]

Towing Update:

I stripped everything from the Sun Cat that is not nailed down. Removed cushions, inside and out, gas tank, PFD's battery etc...everything but Boat with rigging and sails, a sail cover and tiller cover, 4 HP Tohatsu outboard, MagicTilt trailer with spare tire and bracket. Took it to a public scale and total weight, Sorento and trailer was 6100 pounds. Then Weighed Kia Sorento = 4100.1 So... I am exactly at 2,000 lbs which happens to be the towing capacity of the Kia. My GVWR is 5016 according to my manual. Curb weight is 3704 which I take to mean I can carry 1,312 pound of cargo in car. My tongue weight measured at 120 pounds, which is light I realize. I understand it is to be 10-12% of trailer weight which would put it at 200-240 pounds. That said, the trailer pulled very well with lighter tongue weight with no swaying etc. Still, I will probably adjust the load to add some tongue weight. So, say 200 pounds tongue weight + 180 pounds for driver + 150 pounds of gear = 530 pounds leaving 782 extra capacity.

The car drove really well. No issues climbing a few hills etc. Braking was fantastic. I picked up this boat with a Toyota V8 truck and drove 800 miles. My Kia felt pretty close to the same with the exception off acceleration while climbing hills. I'm feeling relieved and positive about towing the Sun Cat short distances with current configuration. 

[Byron of Bedford]

Battery Update:

I decided to try a Harbor Fright Battery Jump Starter/Power station. Normally sells for $59 but coupons brought it down to $33 with a two year extended warranty. The unit has 2 cigarette lighter ports and a USB port. I connected the cigarette port via a plug to the Sun Cat power panel where a standard battery would go. The unit is very light and portable. Charges via standard 120Volt receptacle. I think it will be perfect or day outings. For longer stays I may get a deep cycle battery but we will see.

I Also replaced all the bulbs with LED bulbs from Amazon at a cost of $4. Lights are super bright. They use 10% of the power.

[PJ]

On the towing weight, be careful as many insurance policies will not cover in the event of an accident if the weight specifications were exceeded.   Just my 2 cents....

[Citroen/Dave]

Smith Mountain Lake - 23 miles from.   Be sure to look up Tim Gardner and his C19, west of the bridge. Beautiful home and world famous boat house. I sail east of the bridge in my C16 from Lynchburg by trailer.  Best sailing is during the week.  Very beautiful with the Smith Mountain to the east and the Blue Ridge Mountains to the west.