To Furl or Not to Furl

[multimedia_smith]

Thanks for getting back Markus,
Sounds like something I could do... I don't suppose you have any pics of the thing in action?
I agree with you that a furler on the 16 is overkill... I use a jib downhaul and in really strong winds the 110 has never been too much (so far).
Do you have the measurements (rough) for the drifter/spinnaker?
Thanks again
Dale

[crbakdesign]

Hi Marcus,

I found your remarks on the spinnaker real helpful.

My 16 came with a spinnaker, which I have not used yet, but plan to this season. I want to know more about the boat's charactoristics before sailing with it. I was concerned in one respect. The chainplates for my shrouds on my 79 CP16 are not set very far aft of the mast.  I can see that the angle is sufficient to offset any pull from the jib, particularly with the main sail.  Although, without a back stay, and the mail sail down, a large symetrical spinnaker like mine could put some real force on the mast.  I'm not worried about the chainplate or the 5/32" dia. shroud, but the mast may bend.  I wouldn't sail with a spinnaker in strong winds anyway, but on the lakes around here, you could get caught.  With your experience, in your opinion, how strong is the 16's rigging?

[mgoller]

Hi Guys,
I am not an expert.  This was my thinking while flying the spinnaker from the 16.  The genoa was big and heavy and strained in big winds.  The largest forces and strain seemed to come from a reach to close hauled.  On a broad reach and a run the apparent wind is much less because the boat speed negates some of the winds power.
The 16's rig is quite strong on a reach and close hauled.  The mast isn't very long and the shrouds are well placed for those forces.
If you fly a spinnaker on a moderate day on a run you wont notice much force at all.  You will have to play with the sheets to keep the spinnaker flying.  On a broad reach you'll notice a nice even pull.  Remember you are holding the sheet in your hand.
On a reach you are treating the spinnaker much more like a big jib on a tack.  You certainly wouldn't be doing this if it is too windy.  It wont work in too much wind because the shape of the sail is so full you will be blown downwind.  In soft breezes it is fun to reach with a spinnaker.
So, in situations where the forces are greatest you have the full strength of your shrouds.  Where the forces are weakest you have the lightest loads on the mast where it is least supported.  Remember your hand is going to let go of a 1/4" line before the forces ever get too large.  Now if you cleat off the sheet and start reading your book, you really should monitor things.
A genoa cleated off on a broad reach on a blustery day will put more strain on a rig.
As for size of the spinnakers.  It isn't that critical believe it or not.  A sail maker can cut you one from a used spinnaker which I did.  You can pick from all sorts of colors.  The sail maker wanted to know the length of the boat and heigth of the mast.
You will do more to change the dimension of the sail to suit the wind and point of sail.
The funnest is a big billowy shape off the bow.  The spinnaker will be let well out at the tack and the sheet.  You will be able to see under its shape.  The main will be full out on the same side.  While your speed will nearly match the wind speed to your maximum hull speed things will be quiet and sedate.  The pull in your hand will not be too great.
I run the sheets through the eye of the aft cleats so some of the pull is taken there.  There is some risk that if you had to let go a tangled line could get stuck in the eye.  I run it through so I wont lose the sheets in the water.
You can certainly rig up something to suit you.
Don't hesitate to try your spinnaker.  You will know when forces mount.  Pressures mount much quicker on storm rigs.  A reefed main and jib exert much more force in 20 knot winds than a spinnaker in a 6 knot wind.  I read somewhere how the wind force is logrithmic with greater winds.
Bye

[multimedia_smith]

Hi Marcus,
Though we should change the subject line.
Nice explanation... makes me want to go out and get one.
A question... With the assymetrical spinnaker or gennaker (sp?), don't you have to keep the short side to the front?  How do you change the sheet from one side to the other on a jibe?  Do you take it down to change over or do you use a symmetrical?  That would seem the easiest, I guess.  Finally, what process to you use to deploy and strike it?
We have some pretty light conditions here at Lake Ponchartrain... especially in the afternoons.
Thanks a lot.
Dale

[mgoller]

Hi Dale,
Yes you are right.  It is cut like a huge jib short at the luff and longer on the leech.  It is made of very light nylon.  To jibe, I head straight downwind and let out on the sheet.  The leech blows downwind and in front of the boat.  At the same time I pull in on the other sheet and if all goes well the spinnaker starts filling on the other side.  I am moving so slow at this point I can usually single handedly go forward and help it around if I have to.  When my seven year old deck hand gets a little older this will be his job.  

Maybe 25% of the time I can coax it around with the sheets.  
The spinnaker does two things.  It folds around itself and makes pulling on the sheet a futile endeavor or the sheet gets caught around the bowsprit.
Would it be easier to fly a spinnaker.  I don't think so because you would have to go forward to change the spinnaker pole over, and set it for height.
How do I deploy it?  I think I wrote about this previously.  Once all is rigged just hoist it and throw it out.  One of my spinnkers is called a whomper.  It makes a "whomp" sound when it fills.  To douse it - undo the halyard and as you hoist down just twist the sail on itself and stuff it in its bag.  I keep the bag tied at the mast.  (Makes a nice back rest for tourists).  Leave the tack, clew and head protruding at the top and all lines coiled as you like.  This will be a smaller bag than any of your other sails.

For fun I flew my jib between mast top and forward cleat using the spinnker halyard.  I hanked it on as I hoisted it.  You have to cleat this halyard off very tight or the jib sets in an arc.  Its a staysail in this position.  Then I unfurl the genoa.  I can pull the jib across using the sheets through the fairlead eyes.  I have to furl the genoa to tack and then unfurl onto the other side.   On a reach both fore sails fly out and look pretty.  On a run it isn't too hard to fly them wing and wing.  i use a pole to hold the genoa out and let the jib pick up any spill from the main.

Do I go faster or point higher, surely not, but it is fun to complicate the Com-Pac 19 this much.  It looks very salty, Argh!
Bye,

[multimedia_smith]

Hi Marcus,
I've already made up my pulleys and shackles for the mast top and anchor/sprit retaining band.  The next thing is to find or have recut a piece of parachute or used spinnaker... I think if I stay within the range of 16' for the luff length I should be OK...
Does anyone have measurements for a 16 spinnaker??  The foot could go as long as... what? 10'?  again, anyone have dimensions on one they've tried.  How about crBak, hull no. 886 - "my girl" cp 16 - Atlanta... what's the size of the one that came on your 16?  Bwanna Bob Burgess mentions one in his book... would you like to chime in... or do you even follow this forum?
Thanks guys...
Spring is here and then the dread of summer in New Orleans...
got to get out.
Dale

[crbakdesign]

Does anyone have measurements for a 16 spinnaker??  The foot could go as long as... what? 10'?  again, anyone have dimensions on one they've tried.  How about crBak, hull no. 886 - "my girl" cp 16 - Atlanta... what's the size of the one that came on your 16?  Bwanna Bob Burgess mentions one in his book... would you like to chime in... or do you even follow this forum?
Thanks guys...
Spring is here and then the dread of summer in New Orleans...
got to get out.
Dale

Well we had one heck of a hail storm Monday and then Tuesday it was in the 70's. I made sure the boat was in the garage and the car in the drive. :wink:  Spring isn't here yet, but we're going through the pre-Spring ups and downs apparently.  I'll check tonight and measure my Spinnaker and get back to you.  I've no idea if it's right for a 16 but it seems to fit well, flying from the top of the mast.  My goal is to finish my project list by mid-March and have a proper launching with much fanfare.  We're also having a contest to come up with a real name for her.  My latest addition is a folding boom gallows that doubles as a stern rail. Having a folding boom gallow allow me to continue to rig the mains'le sheet from the transom which I prefer.  I have a slightly smaller 20 ft. spare mast I've had for years. I removed 15 inches from the base and use it as a stub mast to retain the boom while trailoring or motoring.   Pictures soon as it's all mounted.

Clemens

[crbakdesign]

This is how it looked when I bought it.  Seems nearly new and came with the boat.

My spinnaker is 13 1/2 ft at the luff with a 13 1/2 ft foot.  Which gives me just a little room to see under the foot.  





No idea who made it.

Clemens

[multimedia_smith]

Nice looking sail... and THANKS for taking the trouble to measure it.  
Did you have someone stretch the sail & measuring tape... 13.5' seems short... the main luff is 15.3' and it is several feet off the deck.  13.5' is just about right if you're running it from the jib halyard, but from the mast top... the mast is 17' long plus the cabin height.  Do you know if it was made specifically for your boat or merely adapted?
We are having a week of spring followed by a week of winter here in the New Orleans area.  But if you watch it closely you can sneak a sail in about every week and a half.  We DREAD the summer and make our annual escape north for a month... I fantasize about taking my boat this time.
Best of luck
Dale

[mgoller]

Nice looking spinnaker.  Looks like it would fly from the jib halyard.  That will look very sporty.  Also looks symetrical so you will need a pole.
Spring?  Here in Michigan my Com-Pac 19 sits on its trailer covered in hard crusty snow and ice.  Yesterday the hull was gleaming with the afternoon sun setting across it.  The trailer is one with the tundra.  The axle is covered in ice from a flood we had in January.  The sails are still at North sails shop.  The outboard is in the garage, the tiller is wrapped up in the shed.  
Our thaw doesn't come until the first of april.

[crbakdesign]

You know I have to admit that the only time I raised the spinnaker last fall, I had it flying in my carport, with a wind backing it into the mast. It was attached to a halyard laced through a block at the top of the mast The dimensions I gave above are correct.  You are right though, the sail fits fine just above the jib halyard. I am looking forward to trying it this Spring.

By the way.  We had snow in Atlanta today - at least until the sun came out.  I spent years up north so it was a little reminder, which we don't get often.


Clemens

[multimedia_smith]

I just ordered a (new to me/secondhand) sail from Masthead

http://www.mastheadsailinggear.com/

it has a 16'luff and 13'foot, is red and blue and cost $100.
For an additional $65 they are recutting it to be an assymetrical gennaker which I can use on more points of wind than a straight run.  It is .75lb weight, so it should really come in nice on those "breathless" afternoons when everything calms down.

The size should still fit on my regular jib halyard... but I'm rigging a block on a triangle line from the masthead to the spreaders to get it higher but not to put all the strain on the unsupported top of the mast.   The guy who is recutting it had some concerns about that.  The tack will be attached to a line through a block (so I can let it out farther) attached to a shackle on the stainless band that keeps the anchor line in place at the front of the bowsprit.  Masthead has some pretty good deals, they are in St. Petersburg, Fl (where I was born) and right next to Com Pac, so they are quite familiar with the boat.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Dale

[mgoller]

Hi Dale,
Very cool news.  Try it on the jib halyard first.  Size sounds exactly like mine.  At Masthead they told me that boat length and luff length tend to correspond.  Let me know if you find a good way to keep the sheets from getting stuck on the bow sprit.

[B.Hart]

The guys at masthead are great!    Glad to see other people are as happy with them as I am, and a spinaker is next on my list for this light summer air in florida.

[B.Hart]

The guys at masthead are great!    Glad to see other people are as happy with them as I am, and a spinaker is next on my list for this light summer air in florida.