CP 16 Advice Needed!!

[MGS]

I found a 1983 CP16 w/trailer for sale locally that I can purchase for $500.  The companion way hatch boards are missing and the sliding hatch was not in place.  The plywood bunks were solid, but I noticed a water puddle on top of the exposed cement keel.  There are also spider cracks on the port bow rub rail and a few around the mast bracket on the cabin.  I'm 200 lbs and stood on the cabin & it seemed solid, so they might just be cosmetic.  The mast, boom, rudder, motor mount, compression post, etc all looked good.  There are 2 sets of sails and a spinnaker included.  What are your thoughts?

My ultimate boat would be a CP XL, but I like good deals and am a sucker for a project.  I can fix anything, but would hate to have to remove the cement inside the keel like I've seen some do.  I did check the keel closely & there are no cracks from freezing.

Are the sailing characteristics between the Mark I & the XL so distinct that it's worth holding out for an XL?  I live & sail in coastal bays and the Atlantic coast.

P.S. I also realize that there is a $5,000 membership fee (or case of beer) if I buy this boat.

[greg988]

For $500 its a steal!  I bought my fully refurbished one for north of $3k.  Heck, if the trailer is in good condition, that's worth a couple hundred alone.  If you can fix it up, for a small investment, you could easily quadruple your money if you decide to sell.  Everything on a CP16 is fairly easy to fix except the cement keel.  As long as the keel is in good condition, its a good deal!  Good luck! 

[MGS]

Thanks for your reply.  What do you mean by "good condition" & how can I determine that?  The keel is my primary concern.  Is it reasonable to put a dehumidifier in the cabin to dry it out?  I was thinking I could drill holes in the bottom of the keel to see if water comes out, then fill the holes with epoxy.  Is it just a gamble or is there a way to know for sure?

[Citroen/Dave]

Water on top of the concrete in the keel has to come from somewhere.

If the outside of the keel has no damage, the water must come from topside.  An abandoned boat may leak at the main hatch but most likely it is leaking through the deck where items are bolted through the deck.   These leaking deck holes are relatively easy to spot and to fix.  Have someone run a hose while you sit below to spot leaks.  Leaks often will leave a stain as well.  Rain water may also come in trough the two upper corners of the hatch board. (Make tiny ears if you make a new hatch board to prevent this from happening in the future.)  A tiny leak and several rain storms equals a lot of water.  If the boat and trailer tilted up, water can enter the aft hatch.  This additional weight in an abandoned boat often will flatten the tires.

For now, put the boat in a garage or cover with a tarp to stop the inflow.  Tilt the trailer a bit so free water runs to one end.  Scoop out the water and run a small dehumidifier until the concrete dries out - a winter long project?  Or drill a hole. If the concrete is sound, drilling a hole may not release the "sponged up" water in the concrete.  Get as much out before the temperature drops below freezing.  Freezing causes the concrete to turn to gravel, easily scooped out and replaced down to solid concrete.  If you have to go that route dropping the height of the top of the remaining concrete makes for more comfortable sitting in the cabin.  Replace some of the weight with a battery, lead tire weights, pig iron, or what ever . . . not concrete.  The weight of a battery all the way forward in the foot well will help fore-and-aft balance the boat, a bonus.  Placing a battery all the way forward will not significantly reduce foot space while sitting.  Concrete is a very poor choice for ballast.  I had hoped my C16 had the concrete to gravel problem but mine was still solid.  Jack hammering some of it out was not my idea of fun . . .

[Citroen/Dave]

I just reread you first post.  You know where the water came from!

I'll leave my first post as written to see what discussion shows up abut removing some of the frozen concrete from an abandoned C16.

[MGS]

The water is coming in from the open hatch.  The cement is solid and not gravely.

I've decided not pursue it.  Although it's a good deal, I'm going to stick with my original plan.  I'll be purchasing a mint condition CP16 XL in a couple of years as my retirement boat.  I'm going to post the sale information in the classified section of this site for anyone interested.

[Mas]

I personally was looking for Mk2 as had all the features of the later versions had put still had a rear lazarette, and a scoop for ventilation rather than a hatch which cannot be left open in rain or long term for ventilation. Lucked out and found one that had been in a time capsule and looked brand new. Believe they may have only been made from 84-87' but not sure. Did not want a CB version as not worth the hassle of the moving part vs performance. I do know of one that may become available but not definite and a couple folks have already claimed first chance for dibs if so.

Notice ur on the eastern shore. During the sailing season we keep ours on Locklies Creek just off of he Rivah!

[Wayne J]

I just reread you first post.  You know where the water came from!

I'll leave my first post as written to see what discussion shows up abut removing some of the frozen concrete from an abandoned C16.

Citroen Dave ---   I have pictures of my concrete keel.  The aftmost portion has turned to gravel, but I haven't tried to dig down to see if
the gravel is very deep.  I drilled two holes in the aft keel bottom of the port side and about a gallon of water dripped out.

Sorry to all ....The pictures post upside down no matter how many times I load them.

Wayne

[MGS]

Thanks for your reply Mas.  Yes, I'm on the eastern shore with beautiful sailing grounds all around.  Your in an excellent spot too.

You mentioned some of the features I'm looking for too.  The forward hatch for ventilation is a big one.  I went back and forth in regards to a CB, but ultimately decided against it since I don't see a huge benefit there.  I had a Montgomery 15 with a CB and it made noise and worried me to death about the pivot point going bad.  I like the idea of no CB maintenance plus not having holes in the bottom of the boat.  Water would sometimes come up through the hole in the M15 where the lowering rope passed.  I also prefer the 7/8 rig as opposed to the 3/4.  Lifelines would be nice too.  I'm really looking forward to meeting my retirement boat as I have big adventures planned.

[Mas]

Agreed on the rig and no CB but still prefer the scoop rather than the hatch secondary to the reasons I posted above. Also really wanted the rear lazarette which was removed in the Mk3's and later.  It is my experience that you are better off with paling more for a boat in good condition than buying one on the cheap and spending dollars fixing it. Usually if you are honest in record keeping you will realize you are spending more than if you had purchased one already good to go, plus I would prefer to sail rather than fix! Good luck in your search!

[FranckC]

Hello from a new Compac 16 owner,

I have seen a lot of threads about the concrete troubles on the older 16's. I have a fairly large crack in the concrete of my keel, which is dry.

I can not find in any of the threads what is the best concrete to use to fill a crack. Does any one know what kind of concrete was originally used? Is there a concrete that can be used to fill a crack?

I am a complete novice when it comes to concrete.

Cheers- Franck

[JTMeissner]

Franck,

Well, "best" will probably be a matter of opinion.  While the underlying technology of concrete is quite old, modern mixes and chemistry allow for a spectrum of characteristics.  You can reach decision fatigue.

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=9242.msg69630#msg69630

At the link above, you can see some pictures of what I used, a quick setting concrete that did not require mixing.  I used this due to the mixed in lead and steel scraps that were included for the weight. 

However, when I covered the surface of the concrete, I used what is technically termed "grout."  To a non-concrete expert (me), it seems pretty much the same thing, but has a higher strength, different adhesion properties, etc.  I think for your particular issue, this may be a better fit (less shrink, better flow, etc.). 

So, a check of the local store will give you plenty of choices.  Crack repair has a couple options, with epoxy-type fillers, rubbery plastic goo that is also filler, and what you probably want - a denser rock/stone/sand based grout that may require a little bit of crack widening to get it in there.  Whatever way you go, it won't be wrong, and is most likely better than letting the crack get worse.

-Justin

[Tim Gardner]

You might want to try floor leveling concrete.  It's a thin concrete grout that will flow into the gaps and cracks then hardens.  Make sure the keel is level because this stuff flows like water to level itself.

https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/en/products/floors-tile-showers/floor-underlayment-prep/underlayments/durock-quik-cover-self-leveling-underlayment.html

TG