genoa sheets wear through the deck!

[mhrivnak]

Dear list,

Through some advice and looking at pictures, I realized that I had not been
running my genoa sheets the best way on my 1983 CP19.

Previously, I had the sail connected directly to the bow and ran the sheets
between the spars, through the eye-holes and to the cleats.  Now I've added
an extension to get the sail up the to the level of the safety rails (and to
the top of the mast), and run the sheets outside the rails to the blocks on
tracks, then up to the winches and on to a set of new cam cleats I installed.

After only being out a few times though, a couple in strong wind, I've noticed
that where the sheets rub over the fiberglass, they have worn away relatively
significant grooves.  This obviously can't continue, or pretty soon they'll
wear right through the deck.  What do you folks do to prevent this?

Thanks,

Michael Hrivnak

P.S.  This was also posted on the yahoo mail list.

[CaptK]

Mike -

Sounds like maybe you need some winch pads? They would elevate and tilt your winches outboard, giving your sheets a fairer lead, so they wouldn't contact the cockpit coaming. That's my best guess, without being able to see what it is that is happening.

Kurt

[tsaiapex]

Michael,

If you had to add a pigtial to raise the genoa to the top of the mast, then the genoa is not the original CP19 genoa.  On my CP19, the 155 genoa runs the whole length of the forestay without any pigtail.  In addition, the genos sheets run outside of the shrouds, go to the block on the track, to the winch, then to the cleat without rubbing against the cockpit coaming.

The only time when the genoa sheet rub against the cockpit coaming is when the block is moved aft during windy days.  Under this configuration, the block is moved aft of the winch and had to run over the cockpit coaming to return to the winch.

Is it possible that the genoa track is installed in such way that the block is always behind the winch?   Just a thought.

[mhrivnak]

I've been suspecting that these are not the original sails, which makes sense consider that it's a 1983 boat.  The sails are made by Johnson.

I'll try playing with the position of the block on the track to see if I can eliminate the contact.  Thanks for the advice!

Michael

[mhrivnak]

http://hrivnak.org/pic/boat/kerr_lake_9-3-04/

These are some pictures I took this weekend, in which you can see the genoa and how I set it up, as well as the Johnson logos.

Michael

[David Olson]

on my 1980 CP16, there is a big red arrow on the foot of the jib by the tack. (on the original sails)

I don't have that much open space between the foot of the sail and the deck.  

I think the pigtail in the pictures may be too long.  The object is to just clear the bow pulpit isn't it?

p.s. Great pics!

[David Olson]

where is the wear problem.  I couldn't tell from the pictures....

David

[mgoller]

Hi Michael,
I have a 1983 CP 19 - Hull #178, and since sailing it this summer I have put some pretty deep grooves in my coamings.  I hadn't noticed it because I thought the previous owner had done something silly.  But man have I done something stupid!  I have about 6 deep grooves each side now, not quite through the gelcoat, but must be close.
Here is what I have.  I run the sheets the right way around the shrouds.  (Incidentally if you have a normal 100% jib, the sheets run between the shrouds and through the fairlead.)  The genoa just doesn't set right run this way because of interference to the spreader on a close reach.
My problem is that I never use the winches!  I run the sheet through the block on the genoa track and up to cam cleats (not original?).  When I pull in and let out, the sheet rubs on the coaming.
Fixes:  I could install taller blocks? and use the originals for the spinnaker at an aft position.  I could start using the winches, or I could install some sort of bearing material on the coaming (probably a bad idea).
I'll have to look but it seems to me, no matter what, the genoa track is so low and the coaming so high the angles aren't going to work unless the block gets the sheet up and slightly over the coaming.
Also, I have the original genoa and it is cut to fit from tack to head without much to spare.  It does interefere at the bow pulpit but I think the effects are minimal.  I have seen photographs from Hutchis of a CP 19 with the sail cut like yours, over the bow puplpit.  I always thought that was a good idea because you can see better.
I like the way yours looks, nice pictures.  
I have never heeled my 19 more than 15 %.  I tried to get the rail near or in the water and couldn't seem to.  My 83 has a more creamy gelcoat color not so white and I have the halyards led to the cockpit one on either side of the companionway to jam cleats.  I have little wood blocks on the mast where I guess winches could go.  Is this the arrangement you have?  And how do you like it.
I cannot raise the sails from the cockpit.  I have to hoist them and lower them at the mast and then awkwardly feed the slack through to the cockpit and cleat them.  If I had a first mate I suppose I could hoist them from the cockpit while someone fed the luff rope.
We may be good resources for one another on model specific problems solutions and virtues.
Sincerely

[mgoller]

Hi Michael,
Ok, this weekend I started using my winches.  I had to; the wind was so strong I couldn't handle the sheets by hand.
No matter how I set the block on the genoa car I couldn't get the sheet to stop rubbing the coaming.  It seems like if after one season of sailing if I have grooved the coaming this much my boat couldn't have been used much in its 20 year life.
Today I will buy two taller blocks and use the originals for spinnaker sheets at the aft end.

[spaul]

Hi Marcus, perhaps you should add a couple of rub rails. My cp27 has them and they work wonders to avoid combing rub. Add them and the taller blocks if you like. Would be cheaper than blocks if there's a place to add them. I'm not that familiar with the sheet run on your boat.
Good luck,
Steve Paul
cp27/2
IM PAUL SIVE

[Craig Weis]

Yes I too have noticed that the top of my glass shows ware where lines rub, so at my local ships store I found some ss strips that one attaches with two ss screws and guess what? No more ware. skip.

[spaul]

Marcus and Skip,
Just to add one small point that using the stainless rub strips also greatly reduces wear on your sheets. If enough abrasion is taking place to rub grooves in your glass then you're also wearing your ropes significantly. So my take is adding them is a win win.
Good posts.

Steve

[Craig Weis]

I agree Steve that the ware strips will reduce line ware too. Good point. Never looked at it that way.

The sheet line [1] for my head sail has never been used for more than two seasons before being replaced. My old line is usually cut up for my 'new' dock lines and also usually divvied-up for my sailing buddies who somehow never get rid of a junk line. For the dock or anything else. skip.

[pelican]

Another approach to consider with the other great ideas listed above.


They actually make a pulley mounted on a flat piece of stainless  that addresses the rub problem.
basically, it is a pulley mounted flat on the coaming. I have seen this setup on several larger boats down here. It has a name, but I can't think of it to save myself. But ... I will call it a coaming pulley.

Simple but kind of difficult to describe, but I will try.
It looks like someone took a pulley apart and took the pulley and laid it flat on the coaming. Then it is fastened to the coaming with a pin going through the Axel hole on the pulley.

In reality the pulley wheel is fastened flat to a  4'' square heavy gauge piece of stainless and the stainless plate affixes to the coaming. The plate/ pulley is flat against the coaming.

The line does not need to be threaded through, it simply goes under the pulley and up to the winch.  The line runs aft to the car then forward to the coaming pulley ,then up to the winch.The pulley is cut deep, to keep the line from slipping out. It takes a little fooling with to get the pulley in it's best position. Once in place ,it works great and no more rubbing.

It is a permanate mount and does not move. The head sail may need to be raised with the lines running aft as if under sail.  Move the cars fore and aft to find the best place on the coaming to mount the pulley.

This is just another approach... In my humble opinion.. It is better to run a line through or under a pulley then to rub on anything.

Safe sailing

Terry

[pelican]

I just thought of another rig they use down here...  They simply add another car to the track and leave it stationary by the winch.

Sooo... you have a lead car to make sail trim adjustments and  a second car by the winch... Two cars/block/pulleys on each track.. The second car by the winch is usually fabricated a little taller to stop the rubbing..

There are a few local boats with two tracks on each side with multiple cars. There are many creative ways to shift lines with tracks and pulleys...  The end

Terry