Can an (inboard) engine stop cable really cost $15,000???

[moonlight]

So we were able to help out one of the competitors in the last couple of weeks, his boat manufacturer name starts with CAT and ends with INA.  But he has a Universal M25 which was similarly referenced in a recent CP-27 post.

Honestly, I don't recall how we came across him; something electronic we were looking at.  In the midst of it, he mentioned the diesel was down w/ water in the cylinders or a head gasket or something.  Straight up off the bat I told him it wasn't the head gasket and, if it was a raw water cooled motor, it was done anyway stop throwing money at it (it's 35 years old).  We moved on to other tasks as that was not in our area of concern.

Later, it still bugged me; and a week later, I asked again for the engine story while at the coffee shop.  He really couldn't quite explain it; he's new to this stuff.  Didn't even really know if he had freshwater cooling or raw water cooling.  What he did know is it ran one day, and wouldn't run again.  He cranked and cranked and cranked and it wouldn't start.  Eventually, it wouldn't even turn over.

I shouldn't have given away the answer in my title!

He bought another starter from Amazon, it wouldn't turn over either.

He did some battery work, it wouldn't turn over either.

He found a (reported) mechanic somewhere, who drove 30 miles past all the rest of us, pulled a glow plug, told him there was water in the cylinder, and prepared to schedule a crew to pull the engine.  Customer thankfully choked and said stop, let me think about this...

Two months went by before I was aboard on electronics issue.  Two weeks passed before I asked again for the story.  Understanding that there was water in the engine, I assured him it was IMPERATIVE that the engine be addressed, or it would become a mooring anchor.  I don't care how long it's UNDER water, when it comes up, there's 72 hours or so to pickle it, or it's toast.  And if it's got water IN it, similar circumstances.  He authorized me to take a look.

Upon boarding, found two glow plugs out and the intake manifold loose.  Switch to solenoid wire disconnected.  Removed the third glow plug, covered the engine with a towel; and unable to find a crank handle reconnected the switch to solenoid wire.  Going to the helm with the key, noted that the Engine Stop cable was about 1" out.  Better push that in...I thought.  Can't.  I mean, CAN'T.  Can't pull it either.  I now guess that I know EXACTLY what has occurred.  I go ahead, crank the engine spewing all the water out.

Compression test the two cylinders we can easily get to, just for the heck of it.  Pointless, really; it's a 35 year old diesel.  That WAS running.  But get good numbers north of 300 psi anyway.  Put the glow plugs back together, and the intake manifold.  DISCONNECT THE STOP CABLE FROM THE LEVER.  Hit the glow plugs.  Crank.  Hit the glow plugs some more.  Crank.  Hit the glow plugs a bit more, CRANK , RUMBLE, FIRE, SMOKE.  SHE RUNS.

5 oil changes in 1-1/2 hours, leaving the filter on.  Now the oil is dry as checked with a soldering iron on the dip stick (no bacon type sizzle, just smoke).  Go fetch a new filter, new oil, drain it all a final time, and call him to come see his brought back from the grave running engine.

(And inform him he's got a marvelous exhaust leak that will soon require replacement).

And order a new engine stop cable, which he admitted used to take a lot of effort, which this past weekend he used to stop the engine with two fingers and saw the engine-mounted spring pull the cable back down...

He really thought he was up against a total repower, all because he got the cheapest mechanic.

[Tim Gardner]

What a cool story.  I assume the stop cable shut off fuel to the engine, and was stuck in the off position.  Did the water in the cylinder come from the exhaust manifold?

TG

[deisher6]

Moonlight:
Great story......thank your for posting.
regards charlie

[moonlight]

Yes, the water came from the exhaust backing up.

Diesel injector pumps have a lever (in this case) or bypass (in others) that stops fuel flow to the injectors.  His stiff old cable pulled the lever back, and didn't allow it to go forward resuming fuel flow.

Exhaust PRESSURE is required to lift the water (drawn in by the seawater pump, through the heat exchanger to moderate engine antifreeze temperature, and then injected into the exhaust at the mixing elbow) overboard.

We (sailors) generally have to run wet exhaust because we discharge through rubber hose not steel or stainless steel pipe or tube like under your auto.  So we inject the (wasted, heated, but still <212F) cooling water into the exhaust before it enters rubber hose.  Somewhere in the system is a knock-out pot or water lift muffler that accommodates some amount of backflow before it gets to the manifold.

In this case, with fuel shut off, it wouldn't start.  So he cranked.  And he cranked.  And he cranked.  Every revolution spun the raw water pump.  Every revolution dumped some water into the water lift muffler, which in this boat like the engine is even below the waterline and certainly below the discharge point.  Without the running engine pressure to PUSH this water uphill and out the exhaust, it filled ... the muffler, the exhaust PIPE, the exhaust MANIFOLD, and eventually through the valves into the cylinders until the engine wouldn't turn any more.  HYDROLOCK.  Fuel/Air mixture is compressible.  Pure liquid is not!

His situation was improved because EVERYTHING was cold, not operating temperature.

Years ago we had to redesign an exhaust system put in by a major local yard; but they blew it.  It worked, for a while... but the (water lift) muffler was too far back, and too far uphill, and one day after extended puttering at low RPM the (thankfully hot) backflow came through the hot manifold, through hot valves, through hot cylinders, all the way to the intake strainer/breather which was plastic and MELTED.  Another case of they called the (Yanmar) distributor thinking they had a starter warranty problem; Yanmar contacted us to remove the engine for teardown/inspection/rebuild.  This situation being a bit different, the owner still elected (wisely) to gamble on a pickling operation.  The water/emulsion had sat some time, and we had to custom fabricate two new exhaust extensions (one for now, one for in 20 years.  Because the engine will last, and it only cost 30% more at the time, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel later), which took some time.

So In this case, we pickled utilizing the ample fuel on board; we extracted first the emulsion, then filled the engine to the very top of the valve cover with raw diesel.  Let it set 24 hours, extracted and replaced it 3x.  Once the exhaust was all reconfigured and reconnected, we extracted the last batch of diesel changed the filter and put in the appropriate quantity Rotella 15W-40.  VROOM.  Music to everyone's ears.  Change that oil after an hour, again at 10 hours, and the engine is still fine today.

Some lower quality (not diesel) marine engine manufacturers (name starts with Mer and ends with ser) use non-hardened valves in heads with non-hardened valve seats.  If they get touched by backflow water (and they do by negative pressure when said power boater pulls the throttle back fast instead of gradually), the valves "TULIP" and/or the heads crack.  Leads to low compression and eventual replacement...

Some day I'll sort out how to post pictures here, and you'll have a virtual museum of poor engineering...

[brackish]

Happened to me in a similar fashion on an Universal Atomic Four in a Columbia 8.7.  Now where is that water coming from that is in Cylinder 4?? Head off two times before I figured out how those water lift mufflers work.  There has to be enough room in that dude to take care of the water that has to drop down from the lift riser when you shut it off.  Over a number of years just scale coming off of the cooling system that is too heavy to be lifted out will take up residence in that space, displacing the water that should be there so it just continues on back to that last cylinder.  Take it off, throw it away, build a new one all is well.  I can thank Moyer the self appointed guru for old atomic four problems, for the clues that helped me solve that problem. He didn't tell me what was wrong, just explained how they work and I went from there.