Need advice on outboards

[chimerakc]

I have an 86 Compac 23 and 18 months ago put a new HOnda 8hp 4 stroke electric start auto tilt motor on.   I have babied this engine and the gas for it.  Gas is always fresh and there is a water separator and another fuel filter in the fuel line.   Did all the maintenance required in the manual.   Way more than any other motor I have owned. I am in Lee County Florida, outside Ft Myers and so I know the sun can create problems with fuel baking. I run the gas out of it every time I stop it.

I have had LOTS of trouble starting the motor since I owned it - towed twice.  The mechanic from the dealer came out after it wouldnt start the first time - it always turns over fine and is getting fuel and sparks are firing.  He found it was stuck float valve.  A few hours after he left it wouldnt start and the next two times I had to bang on the carburetor with a hammer to loosen the valve and get it started. He had sprayed carb cleaner in it.  I would call that a problem with the float valve but the dealer wont.  I am not talking to them anymore and HOnda requires you talk to the dealer  first so you can guess what I think of the HOnda organization.

It did run ok for several months last spring but when we went to take it out of the water last spring - had to get the boat towed from our dock.  I put the motor to bed for the summer away very carefully and completely.  I tried spraying carb cleaner and starting it when we just got back - didnt work.

The dealer has been very uncooperative(using a much nicer term than I could) - they say its not warranty - its something I am doing to clog the carburetor.  I have an independent mechanic coming tomorrow and he says these small motors clog up so easily that the only answer is run it - every day if possible.   We will see what he finds but I have owned about 6 outboards and all the other lawnmower mowers etc over the years - none in Florida though - and never had ANY troubles like this.   And before this engine, I barely knew any maintenance to do and barely did any.

At this point I am at wits end and ready to decide this motor is a lemon and just sell it and get a different one. I doubt I will be able to clean the carb much at all myself especially once the boat is in the water or out cruising.    Its kept at a dock in my community. On the 23 there is no room for a motor handle so I think I really need electric start and ideally I would like to continue with auto tilt - my wife and I are aging.  I have a friend with a Suzuki 6 on a little bit smaller boat - I wonder if 6 hp is enough for the 23. 

I also hear that there are no fuel injected motors in this size range?   The boat had an old evinrude 9.9 when I got it but it failed to start alot too.  I also would love to stick with an 8hp or 6 to keep weight down in the stern. The boat squats and has weather helm in higher winds despite all methods to lessen that.   I just ease the main now..

Any and all suggestions/comments welcome of course!!   What are people using on these boats?

Thank-you

[Bob23]

Hey there!
   I own a 1985 23 and am using a Tohatsu 6hp Sailpro. I've had no problems although I always use premium fuel with an ethanol treatment. I will say it rarely starts on the first pull like my old Nissan 8 hp 2 cylinder 2 stroke but the Tohatsu actually pushes the boat faster. It's an extra long shaft (25")
   Although the mine sheet tries to interfere with the pull start, it really isn't a big problem.  How far to you need to motor? Maybe an electric Torqueedo would be best for you, old guy!! Like I should talk! Finbar here (CP19) uses a Torqueedo and loves it. He has extra battery packs and sails up here in windy NJ and we deal with tidal movement as well.
  I don't run my motor dry each time I use it...something about that I don't like.
  Your Honda dealer sounds like a jerk, period. Needs to take customer service course 101!!
 

[Finbar Beagle]

As much as I admire my Torqeedo 1003, I think it is a little underpowered for the weight and windage of the CP-23. 

Bob- sounds like an experiment for next season, if you are willing.

The 1003 is 3hp-ish, and recommended for boats less than 2,000 lbs. there is now a 8hp (cruise 4.0) but it has a mighty price tag of 4K...and that does not include battery.

[Bob23]

Ok...I retract my recommendation. I didn't realize the limitation of the motor. 4 g's?? Plus battery? I'll row my 23  before I shell out that kind of moolah!
Sure Brian, we should try it on my 23. What's the worst that could happen, we could spill our beer??

[Finbar Beagle]

The worse would be we drop one or both engines into the bay, Kevin captures it on video, then we spill our beers...

[Bob23]

Ok....time to not think worst case scenario...let's talk about best case! No motors or beer spilled, successful test and we both win the Nobel Peace Prize!

[chimerakc]

Thanks to both of you - its good to hear that Tohatso 6hp would be enough power. I rarely motor more than a half hour down here.  So thats a 4 stroke?    And you two sound like my kind of sailors.
I assume you are both familiar with Barnegat Inlet?   I should tell you the whole story sometime of delivering my 30' Stiletto catamaran down to the Chesapeake from LI Sound - and we got to the inlet late in the day and things looked really bad - BUT - my dizzy navigator kept reading to me about another inlet that was always nice and safe.   To skip to the end, me and my crew of 2 were VERY lucky to survive that entry, especially when the fuel line clip fell off the motor right in the middle of it.   You should have been there when we got in and I read the real entry in the cruising guide!!

[Bob23]

Yes, 4 stroke. And yes, we probably are your kind but if you value your reputation, don't let that get around.
Very familiar with the inlet...I row it whenever I get a chance, which is not often enough because work is a monkey on my back!
This sounds like a good tale told over a Dark and Stormy or 2!

[Tom L.]

If you haven't tried it yet find ethanol free fuel and you may be pleasantly surprised. The small four stroke motors have very small jets and carb orifices as well as shut off valves they often are fouled by the ethanol. Don't know why they just are. Give it a try.

Tom L.

[jgsharpe]

On the Suzuki 6hp - I have one.  Started on one pull every time, idled smoothly, pushed the 23 just fine, but with less oomph than the Honda 8Hp it replaced, of course.  Love having the internal gas tank, which is a great safety net.  The motor is easy to handle and lightweight.  Then one day it wouldn't start and left me drifting, probably my fault for leaving the gas in the tank too long.  Having trouble getting performance back to 100%, hard to start now and always needs some choke to idle.  My dealer is good and I'm optimistic we'll get it worked out.  One other thing, the shaft length is ok as long as I'm in the stern, but could be longer.  I'm using the standard Com-Pac tilt-down motor mount.  Would I buy the Suzuki again?  About 75% sure I would.

[Bob23]

Tom, other than aviation gas, non ethanol is not available in NJ. I plan to smuggle some back on my next trip to Virginia! But you didn't hear me say that!!

[chimerakc]

Thanks again guys for the tips.  I have only ever put non ethanol gas in this Honda.   Some people say I should still put Stabil in that gas?.  And I think I have the original motor bracket attached to the hull.

I must say when I learned that when starting, the gas only goes through the smallest carburetor hole I was aghast.   Isnt that asking for lots of trouble?  I am no engineer but if we are going to Mars I think we can do better than that.

Wow I am glad the boats not in today - we had gale force winds here from the front that is pounding NJ right now.  Our docks are fine in a north wind but things get bad in a big south.....

Kip

[TedStrat]

FWIW...no affiliation but I would always put Startron (the blue stuff) in every outboard tank now. I have a Honda on another small boat and have had a lot of outboards over the years. The ethanol wreaks havoc as we know and the additive has kept me trouble free (knock on wood)

[slode]

Sad to see a Honda with carb problems and a crappy dealer.  They are usually bulletproof motors. 

Sta-Bil works wonders as a fuel stabilizer and it keeps carbs clean.  If it is a sticking float don't run the gas out, that allows any varnish to dry in the carb exacerbating that problem.  If you can find Non-oxy (ethanol free) run it.  If it's not available don't waste your money on any higher octane than recommended for your engine, ethanol is the enemy...  Just Sta-Bil all gas you run in it.  Have been using it in all my small engines for 20+ years and never had to clean a carb, even on seasonal stuff stored for 6 months a year.

Scott

[chimerakc]

Scott - thats amazing, your results.  Although where I lived in Delaware and then New ENgland I never had to hardly touch ANY of my gas engines.  It has to be the Florida sun.   

To REPEAT - I have never put a DROP of ethanol gas in this motor - the marina with non ethanol is right around the corner.   I also never let the tank sit in the sun or with much air in it and always close the air valve - thats how moisture can get in the tank....

My questions was ----  some people say to STILL put Stabil or other brands of stabilizer in this NON ETHANOL gas I use.   Just wondering if that helps anything, if its not the ethanol causing the problem. 

So these 6 hp motors like the Tohatsu - is there room for the control arm to go down all the way behind the transom, or can they be used partially up?   I guess I should measure that distance given there is a different mount there now...