thinking of moving up

[jb]

thanks skip, I bought a pair of the cushions about 10 years ago for my Alberg 22 and still have them... collecting dust.  Like your application...was thinking about some heavy duty Velcro with adhesive backs as a means of attachment?

j

[skip1930]

I don't care for Velcro. [Did you know a Swedish fella invented Velcro while pulling burrs out from his dog's hair?].

1~The area that the Velcro covers is very small when compared to the size of the cushion. Hence weight per square inch.

2~No tight fit against the bulkhead. Collects water, dirt, and speaking of dirt ... dirt fills the Velcro and then  ... no stick'em.

3~Adhesive between the fiberglass and Velcro has a poor holding power when compared to two layers of tacked-up 3-M.

4~Can alignment between cushion and Velcro be consistently 'hit'.

Up to you.

skip. 

[Salty19]

The 19 does have many redeeming qualities over either a 16 or Suncat, and you'll really like it if you decide to get one, I'm sure of that. 
Your S10 can pull it the distance you want.  It's stopping the rig. I know you are handy enough to bleed brakes and overhaul the calipers/pads/rotors..might not be a bad idea. Maybe some better pads. That's the worst thing about towing a 19...slowing down and coming to relative quick stops.

I would leave the rigging alone but instead make a real nice mast raising system. The tiny amount of extra hassle of ensuring clearance for the extra stays isn't worth it, IMO. Carlyle can get rough and you know you'll have to be beating hard and getting tossed about in waves. As for the rigging there have been times downwind where the backstay is really being pulled hard, like skip said in his post. I am glad it's there, and really isn't a hassle after you learn do lay them right before raising.

I'll probably make a winch type gin pole with helper lines to keep the mast straight. Should make the mast raising chore pretty easy. A one man operation if needed.
We can share notes.

[MacGyver]

Dont know if I said this, and I am too lazy currently to check..... But I only adjust my backstay, all else stays set when raising the mast.

Mac

[skip1930]

Hear Mac here. " I only adjust my backstay, all else stays set when raising the mast. "

Me too. Once right, circlip the turnbuckles and that's it.

I have hefted the mast up by my self on the trailer. Though I wouldn't recommend it.
Two arms overhead, walk forward. Shoulder mast. Climb onto sliding hatch.
Push the mast up some more.
I use a safety line from the furler's end around the anchor roller and back under my feet.
As the mast goes up the safety line goes slack, skitter your foot over the safety line to pull the line back and take up the slack.
Once up tie off the safety line and do the Harken pin dance at the bow. Tighten the stern turnbuckle.

BUT!!! I usually grab the first kid I see at the boat launch to take up the slack and cleat the safety line around the cleat welded to my trailer's tongue.

skip.

[Ted]

I have been stepping mine single handed and with help - using the methods described here.

But... I am going to try creating mast stepping system, per the many designs you can find on the interwebs.

This one seems to be the easiest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfYTiKryKBc

I will substitute a galvanized pipe for the 2 x 4 and I haven't figured out yet how to lash the pole to mast but that shouldn't be too hard.

It's more gear to drag around but I got a truck! What I like about it is that it goes slow - when I jack that mast up by myself there are too many ways to get the shrouds hung up on stuff.

Gotta finish that NACA rudder first... she's all wrapped up in foam down in the garage and ready to be shaped!

[Bob23]

Thanks, Ted.
   I've tried a similiar system with varying results. (Verying results means that mine didn't work nearly as well as the video.)  There is a difference in the Compac tabernacle and the one in the video. I'm familiar with the one in the video as it is the same as on my sons Irwin FreeSpirit 21. It does not allow the mast to wiggle sideways at all. On my 23, there is a slot on each side of the mast foot and for that reason, the mast can go sideways. I don't know if other Compacs have a similiar mast foot with the slot.
   Also, the rectangular mast foot on the video allows for the wooden foot on the gin pole to fit snuggly. Ours is different and thus presents a few more problems. But I believe we can adapt this system to work. I plan to use an aluminum pole attached to the actual mast foot in my next attempt. Still, remember that the mast foot is not designed or attached to resist strong lateral loads...if the mast starts to go sideways, the foot will not stop it. Don't ask how I know this.
Bob23

[brackish]

agree with Bob, on a ComPac you are flirting with danger if your system does not have properly adjusted baby stays to keep the lateral movement from occurring.  My very first experience raising my mast with the factory system and two helpers resulted in a lateral sway that ruined the tab.  The baby stays were not adjusted properly. I built a system that is in the DIY on this forum that is a single hand system, can be used on the trailer or on the water, is small enough to allow on board storage, takes about twenty minutes to setup and raise, will lock without using any boat components and allow you to clear the inevitable snag, and if you have a furler, will keep your furler extrusion from bending or kinking and keep the drum from bouncing along the deck.

[Craig]

What you need is a mastender system.   Actually they can be retrofitted......at a price!    NC sailboats has done some. Happy Thanksgiving! 

[marc]

Here is what works for me.
I use a 2x4 for a gin pole. I shimmed out both sides of the gin pole so that the width of the gin pole is the same as the width of the tabernacle. I connect the gin pole to the tabernacle using two "tie plate straps". I bought these straps at my local lumber yard.  Had to buy a longer bolt to go through the tie straps and tabernacle. Should note that once the mast is raised you need to pull out this bolt in order to remove the gin pole. I was a bit leery about this at first but if you tighten the shrouds and stays prior to removing the bolt, the mast will be secure. I've tempered the problem of side-to-side sway somewhat by having a line go from a stanchion base on the starboard side - then around the gin pole - and then tying to the stanchion base on the port side. More on dealing with this problem later.



Here's another photo of the tabernacle setup. Note that in this photo I have the gin pole too close to perpendicular to the mast -  the mast electrical plug ended up being in the way. There are 2 solutions to this problem 1) either shape the bottom end of the gin pole so the pole will always be higher than the plug, or 2) just set up your gin pole so it will have about a 75° angle or so to the mast.


Here's what the upper end of the gin pole looks like. The white line with red flecks is the main halyard. One end is tied off to the gin pole. The other end goes thru the masthead and is then tied off near the base of the mast. The red line goes down to a double block on the deck.



Here's a look at the deck block. The red line is then led back toward the cockpit.


And finally, here is my red line ending at a cleat.


Here is my process for raising the mast (or at least 1 variation of it). I stand on the aft end of the cabin top. If I stand over the mast with my legs straddling it, it is easy to get the mast a few feet off the pushpit rail (or in my case, my wood mast crutch).  My hands hold the mast. I keep the red line between my hands and the mast. Sounds complicated and risky but I have no trouble with it and I am pretty paranoid about this kind of stuff.  As I lift, I pull in on the red line too. It is easy to stop raising the mast at any point since the 4:1 pulley requires very little effort to hold the mast in position.  If something gets hung up, I can walk back to a cleat on the cockpit combing (keeping one hand on the mast so it won't sway) and tie off the red line. More often than not though, I lower the mast back down, (again, easy to do using the 4:1 pulley) correct the item that went wrong, and then raise the mast again. I've done this on the trailer and with the boat on the water  As far as mast sway goes, I stay next to the mast as I'm raising it and let it lean/slide against my body as I raise it. This keeps any sway to a minimum.

Once the mast is vertical, I tie off the red line to a cleat. I can then do everything else at my leisure.

Hope this helps.

Marc

[Billy]

Marc,
Cool setup. But why not use your rope clutch and wench on the cabin top for your red hoist line?

Ps love your stern rail seats. Look like Salty's.

[Lafayette Bruce]

Kick
First couple times I raised my mast it seemed overwhelming and Dad & I did it together.  Now I close the companionway cover and stand on the cover to start out as far aft as I can, and I quick heave and up she goes.  Once the mast is vertical a halyard can be pre attached to the bow pulpit and then cleat it off at the base of the mast to make it more or less secure while you get the bow pin in.  Any more once I have the mast up, I grab the furler (with sail and sail sleeve still on it) and just keep pulling it forward so it is not temped to fall aft.
Another trick is to park the trailer with the bow of the boat significantly lower than the stern and then gravity helps keep the mast upright.
Hey, worst case you make up a gin pole (as you can see from the pictures they are not rocket science) and then you can take all day to get the mast set, but then you will miss wind molecules getting away from you.
Lafayette Bruce

[marc]

Marc,
Cool setup. But why not use your rope clutch and wench on the cabin top for your red hoist line?

I'd rather have the line in my hands. That way I can start and stop the gin pole's movement whenever I want. If the line went through the clutch, I wouldn't be able to stand next to the mast and control its side sway.  Also, in my case, the line diameter is too large for the clutch. The winch is overkill. Not enough force on the line to require its use.

[Ted]

Marc,

Thanks for those pics! I was racking my brain on a way to connect things at the base. Was thinking about using the mast bolt but was unsure about doing it because of having to remove it.

In my case, I actually have another bolt that goes through the mast on the tabernacle. PO installed a bale for a boom vang there. So, in my case, I can install the bale, remove the bolt fear-free, and reinstall it.

I like your setup - will be using it as a template for mine!

Thanks!

[kickingbug1]

bruce, thanks for the advice. if i do make a deal for a 19 if figure ill just muscle it up using carls method of using the jib halyard through a block at the bow and pull that while i raise the mast, once vertical i can cleat the halyard off while i set the forstay. it should work for a few years until i become older and more feeble.