Wheel instead of Tiller

[ilbuildit]

   I will post more pictures in the comming weeks (I am going to San Francisco to visit the inlaws mid-week).

   To give some details about this, the mechanical parts are off the shelf Teleflex rotary steering parts with an 11 foot cable that exits out the transom. it runs inside down the port side of the cabin and is completely out of the way. The rest of the componets are hand built including the wheel. It is a very simple system with very little modification to the boat. Only requires a few holes drilled and the rudder slightly modified or "cut" if you will. That is to install it. Fabricating it is a different story. If I were to do it again I would build the helm itself with a "pole" style mount. My goal was to loose the tiller, which sticks out really far and if you have 4 adults in the cockpit, can become a problem or in other words, is in the way.

This still should operate with some weather helm for safety. I should be able to let go of the wheel and the rudder straighten itself some if not completely. The rudder itself has a total of 84 degrees of movement (42 degrees each way of center) which is more movement then any large vessel with helm I checked out before building this setup. I wanted to have as much rudder as I possibly could with only 8.5 inches of movement within the cable without binding or no weather helm. I will know Tuesday if I achieved this when I finally take this out for testing. I will post my findings.

More to come (If any interest). Lee...

[Craig Weis]

To loose the tiller in the cockpit, also consider building a copy of that no-wheel~no tiller steering system that those crazy French have developed for there no-sink 'em sailboats called ETAP's.
It's very strange but it works. Move the 'vertical stick' around on an ETAP at the All Sail Boat show a few years ago. ETAP was not at this year's show. Don't read anything about them anymore. Can't sell a boat in the US? That's OK with me, don't like the French anyway. skip.

[ilbuildit]

   Well I tested this new helm today and it went very well. Always a little nerve racking that in theory something should work but real world conditions are sometimes different. I found right away that it worked well. I had this bad habit to turn the opposite direction but lost that feeling quick. Still have the tiller in my mind.

   It didn't have as much weather helm that I would have liked to have and the steering is a bit heavier but as time went on today I got used to it. None of it was too much to get used to.  It is a very natural feeling steering this and I found that I or my passenger wasn't moving all about the cockpit. It was much more relaxing sitting to the side of the wheel.

   This was also my first time using a Ida Sailor foiled rudder. I, just like everyone else am very happy with this rudder. Much quicker response then the crappy flat blade.

   Overall my thoughts would be I am happy I did this. Too bad I am selling it. I will be adding this setup to my Catalina this winter. It probably isn't for everyone. I never once had to ask anyone to move or jab them in the back with the tiller. The characteristics are a bit different but the main point of building this was to free up cockpit room for more passenger comfort and still have a boat that is enjoyable to sail and I feel I have accomplished just that.

   (See previous posts within this thread for links to photos).

   Lee...

[multimedia_smith]

Hi IBUILTIT,
I can see why that is your "handle"... beautiful machining work... just beautiful.
A few comments/questions... and since you've sold the boat, I hope you won't mind.
I rather liked the pics of it before you enclosed it... folks might like an extra hand hold to grip while sailing.
Why so far forward? Did it constrict the flow to the cabin?  Does it restrict "footroom" in the well.
Responsiveness...  Things happen much quicker on a smaller boat as far as timely corrections.  I once hear a description comparing the 16 to the 23 (both Clark Mills clone shapes) as the 23 being just like the 16 except in slow motion.  Did you find the wheel "quick enough:?
When I have folks across from me too far aft, I lift the tiller over them or ask them to scoot forward... the 16 likes the weight more centered anyway.
I did like the description of the french boat with the vertical tiller... reminiscent the control "stick" on early airplanes.
Very interesting project and as I said before.... beautifully executed.
Enjoy the new boat... I'd like to hear how you'd compare it to your old 16.
Dale

[ilbuildit]

Dale, (Long winded response here)
Thanks for the nice complements! When this project was finished it went very well with the boat. The color I chose helped out. It didn't stick out like a sore thumb. It appeared like it was built that way.

To answer your questions;
I did cover the whole helm but I had planned to add hand holds on the top curved area on both sides. The person I sold it to in Portland wanted it as soon as possible so time constraints made me complete it that way but it would have been been better with the holds.

The steering is very quick. The wheel is only 16" with a knob and it is 1 1/3 turns from center to full lock so it turns very fast. I get a full 84 degrees of movement from the rudder lock to lock which I felt was very impressive if you knew what I had to go through to get that much. Many of the big sailboats that are built with helms that I looked at didn't get that much movement. My goals of doing this was for it to not take up room under the bunks with steering linkage, not to take up any room in the storage area at the back of the cockpit, and get a lot of movement in the rudder. I was able to achieve all that. It turns very fast and tight. The narrow transom made it difficult but thanks to 21 years of car building, Geometry and the CAD system I was able to pull it off. It didn't interfere with the motor mount and on the starboard side you can still mount a swim ladder.

I had originally planned to mount it near the transom but we all know and like you stated the 16 likes to be weighted more centered. So I mounted it a bit forward of center in the cockpit so when single handing it the bow isn't sitting out of the water. It didn't inhibit movement in the cockpit and when it's just one person moving from side to side it flows very naturally. Again moving fore to aft the handholds would have been good to have and in and out of the cabin is the same. The only thing is in front of the helm, only one adult sitting there would be comforatable because I didn't allow for two sets of big feet. Two could sit there but they better like each other touching feet. If I was to build this again I would use a large round tube instead for the steering linkage to pass through so more foot room at the front of the cockpit could be had. If you were to move this back any further I think it wouldn't be weighted properly.

Like I said previously, this isn't for everyone. It is obviously different. With the tiller I would do as you say, have people move up or lift the tiller above them. I just hated doing that. It worked but it just didn't feel natural. Even in my Catalina 18 I found myself doing that so for now I chopped off 8 inches of the tiller and it still is easy to steer with a shortened stick. I don't jab people anymore and can still use my tiller extention. I am still deciding if this winter I am going to build a helm for it or not. This was a lot of fabrication work.

I feel like I am doing the same things as Kevin with Floridaze and Gypsy Soul. I sold my 16 for a larger boat (Catalina 18)and now I am setting my sights on a Catalina 23 (though my Wife sees differently). I can honestly say when I saw my 16 heading down the road I had a few tears. I loved that boat and still miss it. It was fun to sail and easy to get around on the road, but when it comes down to it I wouldn't give up the boat I have now for the 16. The 16 just isn't big enough for 4 to six adults. This Catalina 18 is very stable to walk around, my wife like many others absolutely hated the easy heeling and un-stableness. She will walk around on this new boat, and I find I can single hand this Cat just as easy as the 16. I will never talk down about the 16, but I will say it again, I honestly miss my 16 . I am happy the new owner is taking very good care of her and sails her regularly on the Columbia River. I wish there was a web site like this one for the Catalina's but I still look at this site every day. You guy's have come up with a great thing here and I am glad I was (and still am) a part of it...

[multimedia_smith]

HI IBUILDIT,

Enjoy the new boat and I hope you stick around.  There's a lot more to this site than the love of a single manufacturer.  It's like motorcyclists... they give each other a "wave" as they pass on the highway... regardless of what make they're riding... they're riding!  There's a comeraderie here.

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of the 16 owners have "downsized" to this boat from larger, more involved craft.  It all has to do with your application.  If you've got a group you regularly sail with, you definitely need more space.  I usually go out either single handed or with two or three folks.  I've taken my wife and daughter to the barrier islands off the Mississippi coast with confidence.  That's saying a lot.

I do love the looks of the CP 23, but the 16 is so "low impact".  This boat doesn't own me.   I really like the fact that I can throw it into the water for the day and then bring it  back home again.  Anytime, I get the "23 itis", I ask myself "how much time do I actually spend in the cabin?"  Then there is the annual hurricane threat here... I like the fact that I can just go down to the garage and "check my mooring lines" only once.

You certainly have a beautiful place to sail, and I'm sure the winters there provide a definite block of indoor project time.
You do great work... that's coming from a die hard "project boy"... but that's all part of the fun of "messing with boats".

Have Fun
Dale

[ilbuildit]

Dale,
You are so right about the 16 being "low impact". My Catalina is still pretty simple to set up but nothing like the 16. Every thing is double and twice as tall.  I miss that with the 16! If it was just me sailing or with a couple of friends, I would have never sold that 16. That boat was just pure fun and simple. I always compared the size to a two man tent. You could overnight in it but it is like a two man tent. Backpackers will know what this means.

I truly appreciate your complements Dale. I have many times and still do look at the gallery and see the things you have done to your 16. All practical, clean, simple, and well executed!!! I urge everyone new or those who haven't seen your pictures to check them out. I, myself was checking out your cockpit cushions. All of us were out for 12 hours Saturday and our bums are sore. I reference back to your boat a lot. Your complements are truly respected.

I am definitely sticking around here. It is interesting and I still learn new things from others. I like to add my experiences and expertise on some subjects. I have a lot of professional experience with glass work and like to help people out so they are not so intimidated by glass work. This is an excellent site and we should feel lucky to share with each other!

Summer not over but the winters here are very good for upgrades and projects. I already have a list of them to do.

Lee...