Docking with motor and rudder...

[mayrel]

I've been learning how to handle my CP19, both sailing and docking.  Obviously backing into a slip is always a bit tedious,however, turning the motor and the rudder at the same time really makes it much easier. If I can attach the two with a bar(used on fishing boats to attach the main motor to the trolling motor), and be able to release the bar for pulling the motor up and tilting the foot out of the water, this would be great!
Anyone have any comments? John

[mayrel]

Westmarine sells a marinetech auxillary steering kit which can be attached to the motor and rudder making steering them together.  They have a quick-disconnect allowing you to remove it from the rudder for sailing.  Looks like it will work, with a little "yankee engineering" for brackets.

[mattman]

When backing you leave the motor in gear after gaining way??? Try making way then shifting to neutral as you back down unless you need the propwalk.

[Salty19]

You might of missed the post I made about a tiller-to-outboard steering link.  Works great!

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=8527.0

[Tom L.]

I added an extension to the motor shift lever and the throttle that I can reach from my steering position in the cockpit. It makes all the difference in the world when trying to maneuver an outboard powered sailboat in tight spaces. The benefits aren't as obvious as you might think. It makes it possible to keep your focus/eyes forward and on the job at hand and not have to turn around, reach over the transom to change throttle or forward/reverse/neutral. When idling I can pop the motor in and out of forward,reverse and neutral to control my position.
I can sit in my steering position and jockey the boat like an inboard. In rare instances I may steer with the motor for real tight issues.
Our sailboats have large rudders so any movement over the water reverse as well as forward will steer the boat fast. Backing down is more effective when the motor is put in neutral after stern way is made. In fact the bow will swing around very fast. It takes a little practice but is very efficient.

[mayrel]

I think Salty has the system down pat.  While docking if you can synchronize the rudder and motor(steering together) you can really control the boat.  Obviously having the throttle and gear control on the tiller would be nice, but I don't think it's that big a deal.  My Tohatsu 6hp has the gear shift on the front of the motor and the tiller throttle is easily reached.  Until I can fabricate a steering connecting rod like Salty's, I plan to pull the rudder up and steer with the motor when docking.  I do steer with the tiller when making longer runs under power with the motor locked straight.  I have a 25" shaft so I think it works better than a 20" shaft as the motor is deeper in the water, but I'm not sure?  The idea you can install or remove the steering rod to the rudder/tiller is the best of all worlds IMHO.

[Salty19]

Mayrel,  I would seriously reconsider raising the rudder at any time when operating the boat--especially docking.

You'll loose a considerable amount of steerage, especially the last few feet as you're halfway into the slip.   Operate tiller and outboard together. Once outboard is clicked into neutral pointed straight..for me in calm wind this is about 3-4 boat lengths away at idle and appx .7 knots-more or less depending on the wind direction and strength, move forward and use tiller only to control.

These last few feet can be hairy and if you single hand you'll be needing to be ready to step off with bow and stern lines in hand, and I don't see how you could do that if you're hanging over the stern with the outboard handle pointed far away during a last second need for full steering. Then add some contrary wind into the mix and things get fun real fast.

[mayrel]

I agree Salty. I'm researching installing the Marinetech auxiliary steering kit(sold by west marine)and corresponding with Vance about their jack plate.  With the Tohatsu 6hp Pro-sail motor I have, it is the 25" shaft length.  It works great when motoring, but I can't get the foot out of the water when sailing with the motor tilted.  I can raise it up and put the motor in neutral which reduces the drag.  I also received authorization that converting the motor to a 20" shaft will not void the warranty.  The cost to have the shaft conversion is expensive(but it was my mistake, and something needs to be done to make things work correctly).  The jack plate is less money and might solve the problem, then I can address the connecting rod for steering with tiller/rudder.  thanks for your response...John

[mayrel]

IN case anyone is interested, the jack plate really isn't the answer.  Although they can be mounted to an existing motor bracket(like most of us use), I think the jack plate is primarily designed to work attached directly to the transom.  It does raise and lower the motor vertically, which is what our motor brackets do.  You can get them with different raising heights(9-11")and set back from the transom(6-12").  Tilting the motor is possible with a jack plate.  However, with my boat in the water(no trailer)fitting a jack plate would be difficult to determine the correct height on the transom, not to mention the possibility of having to redrill mounting holes and filling the old ones.  I'm having my 25" shaft converted to 20"; this is what the boat calls for.

[brackish]

IN case anyone is interested, the jack plate really isn't the answer.  Although they can be mounted to an existing motor bracket(like most of us use), I think the jack plate is primarily designed to work attached directly to the transom.  It does raise and lower the motor vertically, which is what our motor brackets do.  You can get them with different raising heights(9-11")and set back from the transom(6-12").  Tilting the motor is possible with a jack plate.  However, with my boat in the water(no trailer)fitting a jack plate would be difficult to determine the correct height on the transom, not to mention the possibility of having to redrill mounting holes and filling the old ones.  I'm having my 25" shaft converted to 20"; this is what the boat calls for.

before you go through that and loose the benefit of the 25" shaft, you are aware that there are two tilt positions on the Sail Pro?  The top position takes the motor to almost parallel with the world which would certainly get the shaft out of the water.

[Tom L.]

I think you would be wise to try and find a way to get the long shaft tilted up and out of the water vs changing to a short shaft.

Sailboats are a lot different in the water than powerboats. Powerboats squat down in the stern under power and the prop will stay below the surface and in good water. The bow on a powerboat goes up and down a lot while the transom stays relatively quiet. Sailboats don't squat. They bob up and down fore to aft sometimes called hobby horsing. The stern and the bow plunge down and up out of the surface. In any rough conditions a short shaft motor will come out of the water and lose its bite and will over rev. A very bad and really dangerous situation. If a short shaft motor is so low that it doesn't come out of the water it will, in heavy conditions likely get dunked. Again a bad situation.

[mayrel]

The motor bracket on my CP19(whether it is the original or not I don't know)has three positions.  With the motor in the furtherest down position, it is more than deep enough with the 20" shaft.  We've been in 4' seas where the boat did in fact "hobby horse" with the motor in the second position,with no issues.
As to being able to tilt the motor horizontal to the world as brackish suggested, mine won't tilt that far up.  It's a 2015 motor, so maybe the older motors tilted horizontal?  In any event, a long shaft motor(generally sold as a 20")will work fine on our boat. I do agree, having the motor running and in gear coming out and then going back into the water is a good way to break a shear pin and over rev the motor.

[mayrel]

I ended up adding a 1.5" poly board spacer to the motor mount pad.  This moved the motor away from the stern enough to make raising/lowering easier, although not perfect.  With the motor in the full down position there is no issue with it coming out of the water in large waves; we've experienced this already with no trouble.  Steering in reverse when docking requires using both the rudder and motor together.  It's awkward at first, but it works; I can see-saw the bow and get her into the slip, throw it into forward to stop.
It's possible to attach a steering arm to the motor and rudder, but it's complicated.  The arm would have to be removed when sailing and tilting the motor up.  Ideally a motor mount which would allow you to pull it up and down vertically would be perfect; no tilting required.  This arrangement would be similar to a jack-plate.  I'm surprised this type of motor mount isn't available, at least I can't find one.  The whole idea of an adjustable motor mount is to go up and down, and tilt to get the foot out of the water.

[Craig Weis]

With my 5 hp two cycle hard over and the tiller also hard over the CP-19 can be spun around in her own length.
Practice that maneuver.
Always ... come to a complete stop before on off, on off, when you sneak up on the dock, [wind and current cooperating]
These hulls do not stop very well, so be gentle.

skip.

[cycle]

Always ... come to a complete stop before on off, on off, when you sneak up on the dock, [wind and current cooperating]
These hulls do not stop very well, so be gentle.

skip.

This /\ /\ /\ Boy do I wish I had asked you about this when i started out a few years back.  I had to have hit the dock at least 4 times that first year.   I really couldn't get it through my head that you don't just coast to a stop in a boat.  People would just give me that wtf? look as I killed the engine and promptly crashed into the dock.   Although one kind soul told me it doesn't count if no one sees it.  Thus I'm admitting to 4.