M2-12 water pump

[stephens84]

I was changing the oil yesterday on my 1991 27 (Universal M2-12), when I noticed water leaking from the raw water pump where its attached to the block.

I don't see any gasket for sale in the manuals or that one exists, the pump seems tight  but only connected with 2 of the 4 screws from what I can see.
Its the Sherwood pump with 6 screws on the impeller cover.

Has anyone ever removed this pump and is there some type of gasket material needed. And if anyones removed the pump any things to watch out for?

Thanks -

Carl

Carl Stephens
CP 27/2 # 126
"Knot Again"

[atrometer]

Go to www.marinedieseldirect.com.  There you will find any/all infor re: M2-12, including diagrams.

[spaul]

Carl,
I assume you would have a manual for your Universal engine. It would show the presence of a gasket. If you don't have one you can get one here:

http://www.marineengine.com/manuals/universal/index.html

I'm totally not familiar with your engine (I have a Yanmar) but would guess either the gasket is missing or you have shaft wear and the inner seal is leaking. I also found a marine diesel forum you could try. Just google Universal Marine m12 and look around. Let us know what you find.

Steve
cp27/2

[stephens84]

Steve,

The manual does not show a gasket. There is an inner seal in the diagram. Would that cause water to leak out between the pump and the block?

Carl

Carl Stephens

CP27 #126
"knot Again"

[spaul]

Carl,
Yes a poor seal or worn shaft will definately allow water to leak out past the pump body. Before replacing the seal make certain the shaft isn't worn as a new seal will just give you the same problem. I was reading one of the posts on the diesel forum where the original type of water pump had this kind of problem. Rather than replacing the shaft it is easier to just replace the whole pump with the new replacement offered. Apparently a manufacturing change was made to a different pump at some point in time. Blog said was same cost to upgrade as to repair. I suggest you call someone at Universal or a Universal dealer and check with them and probably get ready to just replace the pump body and shaft together. Fixing it now will give you peace of mind for not a lot of money. Let us know how you're doing at this.
Good luck, buenos fortuna et al.

Steve

[thedavo]

Wanna save a ton of money with a waterpump replacement? I bought the Kubota tractor replacement pump (Kubota made this engine) for 93 dollars. Universal's price? somewhere around 250 or so. You will have to do some research as far as the Kubota/Universal cross-numbering goes. I found it with a Google search. Dave.

[thedavo]

One other thing......it had a gasket. Dave.

[stephens84]

Thanks, I'll look it up.
I have plenty of time, just took the boat out on Saturday. Have until April to get it and figure out how to do it. Dave, was that the Raw water pump you found from kabota?
The price thru Torrenson was almost $400.

Carl

[spaul]

Carl, could it be you just need a gasket? I believe I could have a local machine shop make me a pump for under $ 400 lol

steve paul

[thedavo]

Yes Carl, I went to the Kubota tractor dealer to get the part. But I had to get the number off of the internet as the Kubota guys were unaware that the same block was used in a marine application. It was a home lawn tractor albeit a very large one. I will see if I can find the information online here. The one thing that I have to be careful about is that mine is not the M2-12. It is just the M-12. But a quick look on the Universal site should show the same part number if they are in fact the same. I would be surprised if they changed anything between the two as far as that goes.
Dave.

[thedavo]

Oops, I guess I DO have a M2-12! Dave.

[thedavo]

I did a little searching and on the Catalina30.com site they have a FAQ section where Kubota/Universal motor numbers were listed. The M15 was the smallest motor noted.  I also found some info on a site named Tractorsmart.com. If you look at their Kubota "B" series tractors, you will see a photo of the water pump you want. Once I saw the part number, I recognized it as the one I ordered. Tractorsmart's price was $91.66. Part number 15534-73030. The catalina site noted that the motor model number is stamped on the dipstick. I seem to recall that mine did not have a stamp. I further seem to recall that I had to order the M2-12 part even though mine is the M-12. Forget what I said in my earlier post about mine being a M2-12. Somewhere I saw an exploded view of both engines and it appeared that the two engines had the same hole pattern. So I went for it and it works.
Make sure that the water pump comes with the gasket. As I recall, both myself and the parts man were surprised that it was not included. If I find anymore info, I will surely pass it on. Good luck. Dave.

[thedavo]

Please accept my humblest apologies. I just realized the pump I replace was the fresh water pump. Probably not a whole lot of tractors out there with a raw water pump huh? Anyways, there is a site called marinepartssource.com. They had two raw water pumps available. I dont know if they both work but the price difference was significant! The Westerbeke replacement was $320.00 and the Sherwood was $237.90. They had real clear photos of each piece for you to look at. Hope this helps. Dave.

[jimyoung]

Carl,

I have just found this forum so you may have all this straightened out already, but just in case... I have an '86 27' Compac with (I think) that same engine and the raw water pump does have a gasket but it is an oil gasket and would not have anything to do with the water leaking.  The origional pump was terrible and was replaced on later year models with a much improved model so be sure you use this replacement.  If you need model numbers, schematics, or vendors let me know as I have saved all that info since I replaced mine. I think I even have the factory notice about the replacement.

One IMPORTANT point. When mounting the pump be sure to point the inlet/exit UP or the pump will loose it's prime and run dry - causing very early degradition

[stephens84]

Jim,

Thanks for the offer. I have not replaced the raw water pump yet - leaving it for a spring job.

If you have the info on the replacement that would be great. I've contacted torrenson marine and they seem to have most parts for the Universal Diesels.

The M2-12 is very similar to the M12 but was made from 1989 to 92 I think. A lot of the parts are the same. Mine has the sherwood pump with 6 screws and round cover.

Good to have someone with 20 years experience with the 27. Mines a 1991 but I just bought it 2 years ago.

Carl Stephens
Com-Pac 27/2
"Knot Again"