Mast Step Wire Egress

[Harrier]

The previous owner of Harrier had radar installed on the mast.  It appears rather than drop the mast they simply drilled a hole up through the cabin, just forward of the compression post and fished the radar cable up and in.  They then squeezed silicone caulk up through the hole in an attempt to seal.  Needless to say, water found its way in and has now done some damage to the bulkhead wall.  Because there is was no connection in the radar cable above deck, I had to uncouple the wire from below and feed it up through the hole as I took the mast down this past fall - major pain.  Once I got the mast down, my suspicions were confirmed.  Collected in the mast step was a ton of material debris as well as a broken drill bit!

Anyway, I'm looking for tips on two items. 
1.  Can I/Should I, cut the radar cable above deck and install a connector so that I can positively seal the mast step with the mast uninstalled and allow for future unstepping?  If I do install a connector, do I need to be concerned with affecting the empedence of the cable and subsequent operation of the radar? 
2.  Any tips for sealing the mast step around the radar cable?

Thanks in advance.

[MacGyver]

Harrier,

Depends on the exact cable that is used for that, as to which thru deck connector you can get to alleviate that issue.

Sadly that isnt the first I have heard or for that matter seen occur......

The one thru deck connector off the top of my head has a gasket in it that acts like a faucet seal, it utilizes compression to tightly seal around the wire coming through it. (typically COAX sized) and then you would have a end on it that would connect to the end that comes out of the mast.

One suggestion, If you can, we typically install wiring to be able to be set inside the mast so as it would be out of the weather normally. it is a slight pain when stepping the mast, but I am pretty sure you use a Gin Pole to do that work.
You would want to tape up the connection, stuff it into the bottom of the mast and then set the mast on its step, finishing the process.

I hope that makes sense 

Mac

[moonlight]

In General, it is never advisable to cut radar cable.

In Practice, it happens probably a lot more than manufacturers would like to admit.  But the first time you have a problem, it's the first thing to check and that they'll want replaced.

In Specific, which model and brand of radar are we discussing?  And what body of water are you navigating?  Do you use the radar?  If a prior owner installed it, then it's already obsolete; if you don't use it, repurpose it to a nice mushroom anchor (it has very little capacity to hold in anything except by it's mass).

The hardest part is figuring how to make a radar connection suitable for frequent disconnection without significant degradation of the signal; masts with radar just don't come down that often and as such it's usually ok to disconnect the antenna and fish the wire out or disconnect the display and vice versa, which ever is easier; typically the mast is easier than running all around inside the boat.

If you can get away with cutting it just once and making it water tight; then do such above the deck where it can be tucked into the mast and utilize "stepped" or "rolling" butt splices w/ heat shrink; by "stepped" or "rolling" I mean cut and strip the jacket from 6-8" of both sides at your cut, overlap them, open the shield and carefully draw it back where you can work, and then in a row trim the wires so rather than four or six butt splices together you've got four or six butt splices in a row.  Now cut them all out again because I should I have said slide a big piece of heat shrink over the whole cable first, four to six inches longer than your overlap.  Then stagger all your butt splices again, cover them with the shields and make sure the two shields have sufficient overlap and contact (and maybe some dielectric grease), slide the heat shrink over and seal her up. 

[Harrier]

The system is still fairly new (2006) and works great.  The dome is an 18" 2kW Radome scanner.  Admittedly I don't use it often.  Once really - during some dense fog on Long Island sound.  Regardless definitely not boat anchor material, but I'll keep that in mind for the future.     
When you say to "disconnect the antenna" do you mean the dome itself?  I had considered that, but have never opened up the dome to see how the connections are made inside.  The scanner is only about 8' off deck, so this is an option.  I'm not on a pivoting mast step, so If I went that route it would definitely require crane assistance while pulling the line back up the mast when re-stepping.  But as you mentioned it wont be coming down often.  The only reason it did was to fix the leak.

[skip1930]

That's a good question.

My friend has a C-P 19 Wind Rover with radar and that darn cord pops through a hole in the mast, a hole through the cabin top and snakes around to the display.
I'd love to be able to remove the mast from the boat but as it is now I can't even pull the mast out of the tabernacle. Makes it hard to trailer down the road.

I'm very tempted to cut the wires and make a connection but the book says don't do it.

skip.

Is it sealed? Kind of...a lamp style copper threaded, hollow tube with top and bottom washers and nuts through the cabin top and the tube filled with duct seal. The guy at Ace Hardware calls it 'Dog S**t.' Works great. No water drips. We use it at the aeroport for antennas and coaxial cable penetrations.

[Harrier]

I'm also tempted.  I'm looking at mil-spec 38999 type connector.  If I go for it, I'll let you know how it works out.
Do you know how your friends deck penetration is sealed? 

[moonlight]

2Kw 18" dome 2006 by:
Garmin?
Raymarine?
JRC?
Sitex?
other??

those were just four quick names late at night after a hard day.  My recommendation is fill in that blank (name) and google it.  It'll show you the connection. Garmin, current, just plugs into a threaded connection; you never open their arrays/antennas except on their workbench.  Raymarine, the digital I just installed, was the same; a plug.  The '05~'06 analog Raymarine that burnt up; it had to be opened (four or six screws) and the wires (four or six of those as well) independently disconnected from the equivalent of a bus bar or strip.  But not hard.

Your mast is coming down, which will require a crane anyway, won't it?  If on a tabernacle, you should have enough slack to lean it over.  Pull it through with a fish tape or wire or string attached; and then pull it back through when you're done.

If it's only 8' above deck, childs play.  Using the Murphy's Law of Labor Estimation, and What Can Go Wrong Will Caveats, you should be able to fish the wire out, and back in, in say, 8 hours each way; or less, once you hit your stride.  I had rigging or de-rigging ComPac 25's from fully sailable to packed on trailer and doing 60mph down to about 1.25 hrs once in my life; but since it's been so long since I've done that I better allow 4 hours next time!

[MacGyver]

 
I am so confused........ I install plugs on all sorts of things at the mast all the time, course I am fresh water lake, but still.....

Never had a problem, always make it so the mast can come down and disconnect at the deck, no matter the parts...... again, never had a issue....

I feel like the "Don't cut my wires and add a connector bro!" or similar less surfer dude remark from the manufacturer is just because of the same reason we all wear pants........ (to cover our A$$)

I had to run a rotevecta wind meter by Raymarine, and of course it said dont cut, blah blah blah....... a 6 pin connector later and that mast is ready to come down yearly. 

They know we have to do something...... I mean fishing that wire all the time would drive me nuts.....
So then I think, in reality, through a connector, what is the loss? Little to none I am sure. I really wonder why overall that length they think that it wouldnt be spliced somewhere......

Moonlight deals with wiring more than I do, what reasons for no connector versus all that work everytime one was to take their mast down?

Just me thinking this over, as I find myself on the couch listening to music pondering my own electrical ideas.... I think of everywhere a connection would be needed to facilitate easier work as I use the boat.

Mac

[Harrier]

As suggested, I was able to find the manual online. 
The internal connection looks pretty straight forward.
Maybe the way to go.


Prior to knowing what I was getting into I built up this a-frame style do it yourself "crane"
http://www.catalina27.org/SN-FTP/mastraising.jpg
It worked other than I could only raise the mast ~ 1" before the radar cable went taught.

I do not have a tabernacle.  I have a fixed mast step.


Any suggestions on sealing the deck?  Glands?  Swan neck tube? 
I see alot of recommendations for Index Marine deck glands, but the idea of putting three more holes into the deck to secure it seems self defeating.

[Harrier]

So I got down to the boat today and took a couple pictures.
The first shows the holes coming up through my deck.  To the best of my knowledge the hole to the right is original and the wires run up the center of the compression post.  The hole to the left is the one added by the previous owner for the radar cable.  As you can see neither of them appear to have been properly sealed, at least not recently.  Another thing I found interesting is that there is NO drain hole in the mast step - unless you count the two draining into the cabin.


The second picture is from the inside showing the forward hole.  You can see some of the water damage on the teak trim.  What you cant see is the delamination occuring in the plywood bulkhead.


I still haven't settled on a plan yet, but I'm beginning to consider completely sealing off these holes with some epoxy, drilling new holes outside of the mast step and using deck glands.  Its not as "clean" of a look, but at least it can be properly maintained/monitored.  I just hate the idea of putting more holes in.

I was reviewing my "Com-Pac Yacht Owners Handbook", and it refers to the following;

In order to run additional wires from the mast to the inside of your Com-Pac 27, first remove the teak floor trim on the forward side of the main cabin bulkhead.  NEVER REMOVE THE STAINLESS STEEL COMPRESSION POST BASE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BULKHEAD.  Once the teak floor trim has been removed, the existing wires and a messenger are exposed.  Then remove the sealant around the wires and the messenger at the mast step.  You will now be able to utilize the messenger to run additional wires.

I assume a messenger is some form of fish tape or pull wire to allow you to pull new cables thru the channel?  Either way, I see no messenger?  I'd like to take apart the compression post so I can really assess the situation.  But as noted in bold capital letters, it stated to never remove the steel base.  I like following directions, but don't like to do so blindly.  Does anyone know why this warning was given?

I'd also still be interested in soliciting any addition advice on my problem.  Thanks.

[Harrier]

REPAIR COMPLETE:
So I made some decisions...
1.  I no longer wanted wires running inside the compression post were they were inaccessible and the oppurtunity for a leak could go unnoticed
2.  I wanted a system which did not require sealing around the wires
3.  I wanted all connections inside the cabin

The result;  I removed the mast step and filled both of the original holes with epoxy.  I then shaped and bonded a piece of vinyl board into the bottom of the step and drilled drain holes.  Finally I drilled one new single hole just forward of the compression post and bonded a 1.25" flanged pvc hose coupling into the hole.  I then rebedded the step to the deck with butyl tape.  Inside the mast I zipped tied a service loop to all wires, so that any water which drips down them will not enter the cabin.














On a related note;  In a previous post I stated that there was no drain in the maststep.  Upon removal I discovered what I suspected - I was wrong.  There is a drain, but mine was clogged with silicone from the previous radar installation.  It is a very long and small drain, and I image it can be easily clogged.  Just a warning to other owners.  Because of my system "redesign" I no longer need the drain, and I actually purposefully sealed it off on reinstall.

[moonlight]

That looks like a pretty awesome repair.  You've done it right, and for the last time.  I trust you'll be able to do it over again, if required; but you've certainly sealed all the leaks and given good wiring access.  I still might go and drill a 1/4" hole in the base of the mast and through the step for drainage, but you'll never have much but mud dauber wasps to clog it up.  I can't imagine too much rain getting past the sheaves or halyard pockets...

[Harrier]

Thanks.  I actually did drill the holes you recommended, I just didn't get any good pics after they were put in.  Fingers crossed, no more water!
Since you brought up the wasps, I will "bite".  I'm not sure exactly what species of vermon are responsible, but my mast is full of debris.  Aside from the fact I don't think there is enough room for any birds to get in the mast, it appears similar to a bird nest.  Twigs, grass, pine needles, wood shavings, etc.
I was able to clean out the bottom few feet, but there appears to be a lot more still in there.  I guess I'm going to have to ask the marina to flush it out with a hose while they have it suspended from the crane?

[skip1930]

Why suspend the mast? Put a nozzle on the end of the hose and pull the trigger while the mast is horizontal. Fill the tube [mast] up with water and it'll flush itself out. A little tilt will have the water running out. I'd unscrew the masthead and pull that off the top-O-mast. After which all kinds of wires can be pushed/pulled clean through the tube. Drill a hole where you want a wire to come out, say at the spreader, reach in there with a stiff wire rolled to a hook and dig out one of the wires. For quiet, leave the tails on the zip strips. Don't zippy strip the wire you want to pull/push out of the hole mid-ships in the mast.

skip.

[stevenc]

I'm in the process of correcting a similar leak inside the mast step on my Com-Pac 27.  Luckily it didn't cause any water damage, just a very small puddle at the base of the compression post.  If gone unattended it would have eventually began to soak into the wood.  I like your idea of eliminating the wiring from inside the compression post.  Have you given thought to how you will run/hide the wires now that they are exposed?
Thanks,
Steve
PS -- very nice photos you posted.  Nice of you to make the effort to share this with everyone.  I haven't been on the site for some time.  I need to take the time to figure out how to post photos so I can share some improvements I've made to my boat.