How much do I offer?

[NateD]

Nate,

I totally dig your analysis! 

What do you use as a starting point?  For instance, I am interested in a 1981 C16.  How do I get the starting price to start subtracing the $110 per year?

To figure out the starting point, and how to adjust for condition of the boat and extras (like a trailer), is explained in this thread: http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2892.0


MomentSurf: You mentioned that people who have stuff they don't use tend to value it too highly. Actually most people value stuff they already have too highly (whether they use it or not) compared to it's market value, it's a well studied cognitive bias called "ownership bias" (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/01/22/will-your-stock-hit-rock-bottom.aspx).

[TedW]

Hey Jamato,  I've been looking at a CP25 and thinking of making an offer.  I've been on several but never sailed one.  Do you have any major complaints
as to how they sail. Is your boat diesel or outboard?
Thanks,  TedW.

[jamato323]

Hi Ted:
I love the way she sails kind of lumbering in a stylish way - like me. Seriously she has a lot of windage with a 30" draft so you have to pay attention or she will wander. Mine is the outboard model which I prefer...I have a Tohatsu 18. Contact me and I'll send some pics and offer
more opinion. You can also check here under the 25 forum for more info. Good luck. pdotscribneratcomcastdotnet

[Bob23]

Although I've never sailed on one, I like the fact that you get standing headroom in a trailerable boat. Not crazy about that much freeboard, but the headrooms gotta come from somewhere, right? I would'nt imagine they come up for sale too often.
bob23

[jamato323]

At 4,900 empty "trailerable" is a stretch, Bob, but I agree its nice to be able to haul and run especially when you live with hurricane's as we do in SW FL. Since mine is in the water year round and did not come with a trailer, I purchased stands and the marina where she lives will pull her up
and out at the first sign of a bad blow. I agree with the windage point but at OAL of 28'2" she still maintains salty proportions.

[Bob23]

   True, I did not mean trailerable in the sense of launching at a ramp. But it's nice to be able to haul it over the road yourself. This is one reason I love my 23- she lives on HER trailer and can be towed behind MY truck. "We don't need no stinckin' winter storage fees!"
   I'd like to sail on one...I might get hooked. I mean, gee- you have standing headroom and only draw 3 more inches than me!

bob23

[NateD]

   True, I did not mean trailerable in the sense of launching at a ramp. But it's nice to be able to haul it over the road yourself. This is one reason I love my 23- she lives on HER trailer and can be towed behind MY truck. "We don't need no stinckin' winter storage fees!"
   I'd like to sail on one...I might get hooked. I mean, gee- you have standing headroom and only draw 3 more inches than me!

bob23

There is a CP25 berthed right next to my 23, and I am envious of the head room too. But you can tell just by looking at them that the mast is essentially the same. A little bit bigger genoa thanks to the longer deck, but overall its only a 41% increase in sail area compared to a 60% increase in displacement, and a LOT more windage compared to the 23. While the 25 doesn't look bad, I think the 23 has better proportions overall.

I'll take some comparative pictures sometime.

[bmiller]

Howdy guys, long time no boat.

Anyway back on topic: When I purchased my 1986 CP27 the owner had it listed for 27K with a trailer in great condition and lots of upgrades. I offered 22K, he accepted. I owned her for several years, put a few thousand in, had the most fun anyone can have legally, then sold her for 20K. Mind you she sat on a road worthy trailer and was very, very well cared for with tons of upgrades including dingy davit/solar panel and much more. 

The boat you mention needs sails, thats several thousand right off the top. Running rigging isn't much, probably a few hundred. Oil in the bilge needs close investigation. How is the cutlass and packing? Those may very well need replaced, not easy but doable. Fortunately with the foam core the little leaks are not much more than a nuisance. Pay special attention to the standing rigging as well as the wiring inside the mast. That can be a bitch. That's just the tip of the iceberg there.

Got any photos? That would help out a bunch.

without seeing it my best guess of an offer would be no more than 15K probably more like 13K

Good luck, hopefully you'll get her.

[Bob23]

I wonder what PeterG sold his for? He just closed the deal a few weeks ago.
Bill: Nice to hear from you. So, no boats yet?  I really enjoyed hearing of your past antics aboard "Pooka" in the Sea of Cortez.
I agree with Nate: the 23 has just about perfect proportions which is one reason I chose her, or, she chose me. When I was looking for a sailboat, my friend Bud had suggested a number of them and I wasn't impressed with any of them. Some were great deals so he was confused as to why I wasn't buying. My reply was: "Bud, I'll know the right boat because it'll stir my soul". Which is what happened when I first saw my 23. We're still in love but to be able to stand like a normal human being would be nice too.
Bob23

[NateD]

Sailors are anything but normal human beings.

[Bob23]

Very well put. There are enough boring normal people around. Well, maybe not around here!
bob23

[MomentSurf]

After I talked to the owner in May, I got the 'ol slip again. He told me to think about what I wanted to offer and give him a call...well, I called him a few times the following week but no answer and no call back.  Unfortunately, this has happened in the past, so I wasn't surprised.

A couple weeks ago I was cleaning out my truck and came across his number.  I figured I would give him a call and see if I got lucky.  Well, at least he answered this time!  We actually had a nice conversation.  He seemed like an older man, who admittedly might not even be able to sail anymore.  He apologized for never getting back to me but explained how much he loved the boat and even though he wasn't using it, he didn't want to let it go.  I also get the feeling whatever money he gets for the boat won't change his life in any way, so that's not the motivating factor.  We talked about the boat and why we both value it.  I assured him it will go to good home and be appreciated as much as he did in the past.  We went over what the boat needs, some possible hidden problems, and before we got off the phone...even though I knew he wasn't selling...I threw a number out.  He assured me when the time comes I'll be the first to know.  I hope he mulls around the offer and decides to sell.  If not, I promised him this won't be the last time I bug him about it! 

Funny, he was under the impression I thought he was crazy for not letting the boat go, meanwhile I was under the impression he thought I was crazy for calling him for the past four years. 

[Nicolina]

Well, I suppose you're both crazy but don't worry: that's required for boat ownership.

[MomentSurf]

Here we go again...My Steiger Craft is up for sale and I'm reaching out to the owner again, 2 years later! 

I looked over the boat today to find all the same issues I described in original post...plus one thing that I would like some input on.  
It looks like the keel has some water leaking out of it...

Starboard Keel


close up




Port Keel


Thoughts?

How do I go about removing the cabin sole...can I inspect the keel area? I see no screws...does it just pry up?  The bilge, behind the sole I mentioned, does have some standing water.

[MacGyver]

Salt water or fresh water area?

Mac