I am seriously considering an electric trolling motor for my "new" CP16. Does anyone else use one? How much thrust do you need (or are they measured in hp?) wheres the battery go? Is it a full sized 24 Group or bigger? How do you maintain charge? Solar sheet/panel?
I have 3 small gas outboards that would work on the boat....but they are in constant (and i mean constant) need of carb cleaning due to ethanol.
Seriously thinking electric motor of some sort is the way to go.
Opinions?
For the short haul, ie, to the dock, off the dock, it's fine to burn electrons.
And safe as long as the hydrogen is vented off the battery. Discharging a wet cell = hydrogen gas.
For the long haul, like being caught off shore in a storm and in big wind. I'd burn gas.
Extends the need to steer off shore to keep from grounding while the blow goes by ... that's a good thing.
your choice. skip.
Quote from: hinmo on September 19, 2013, 06:30:59 AM
I am seriously considering an electric trolling motor for my "new" CP16. Does anyone else use one? How much thrust do you need (or are they measured in hp?) wheres the battery go? Is it a full sized 24 Group or bigger? How do you maintain charge? Solar sheet/panel?
I have 3 small gas outboards that would work on the boat....but they are in constant (and i mean constant) need of carb cleaning due to ethanol.
Seriously thinking electric motor of some sort is the way to go.
Opinions?
I have used a 32 lb thrust Motorguide (I think that's the brand) trolling motor on my '83 CP16. It is fine for calm water, and going against a light wind. I put the battery up in the peak of the bow, and I run a heavy duty cable back through the companionway while using the motor, and then put it back in the cabin while sailing. Once as a test I went about 1.25 miles on it; I believe it would have gone a lot longer. Once you get the heavy boat going forward, with inertia it doesn't take a lot of power to keep it moving. I tried it once going into strong wind (15-20 mph), and with two 190 lb guys in the cockpit, the motor could not keep the bow into the wind. One of us had to go forward with a paddle to keep the bow pointing into the wind. If I go on the nearby lake (3 mi long by 1 mi wide), I usually take it rather than the 4.5 hp gas outboard. Hope this helps.
Thanks all - how do you keep your battery charged?
Here's a link to a past discussion: http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=4852.msg33871#msg33871 (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=4852.msg33871#msg33871)
Many other discussions about trolling motors for the CP-16. I like it, and the battery I have lasts a long weekend on a charge (longer probably, only three days of sailing on a 4-day). 40 lbs of thrust and I'm at hull speed; forward, reverse, no issues. Battery up in front of compression post, power cable up through lazerette. I charge it in camper/cabin on last night, take it home to recharge if long time before returning to the lake.
Can it fight the wind? Not really, but I'm much better now at reefing and using the free power. No current on the reservoir unless the dam breaks; would probably just have to ride out that contingency. ;D
-Justin
Thx Justin - I am intrigued by the potential of an electric, but where I sail (salt water, decent winds) I will encounter 15kts every day, and may be motoring against a partial headwind. It the boat can point at all, everything will be fine, if not, I might need aux power....
I really, REALLY hate the ethanol issue, like I said, I have 3 motors I rotate to keep one running (and one is only 2 years old and needs a new carb!!)
Consider a Torqueedo motor: http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=6486.0
hinmo,
Once you get those carbs clean, bite the bullet and USE ONLY NON-ETHANOL FUEL in your outboards. You probably don't use all that much fuel anyway, so the extra expense shouldn't be too great. And yes, I use only non-ethanol fuel in my YAMAHA 4 HP 4-stroke on my Sun Cat. I also treat every ounce of fuel in my fuel tank with Sta-Bil (stabilizer). No problems!
Nevertheless, I share your intrigue with electric motors and use a 45 pound thrust Motor Guide Trolling Motor on my 12' homemade sailboat to get out and in marked channels to deeper water!
capt_nemo
Nemo - where do you get non-E fuel?
Salty - $$$ is an issue
" Once you get the heavy boat going forward, with inertia it doesn't take a lot of power to keep it moving. "
None E~fuel is British Petrolium [BP] premium gasoline.
Hummm? If we are talking about a car, O.K. yes. Automatic transmissions are used to keep the speed up and inertia up.
But there is a reason why an automatic or manual transmission does not work on boats. Yachting magazine had an article on exactly why won't work. I can't find that article.
More speed, more power needed. A constant speed ... a constant power input needed. It's a straight line graph ... I think.
skip.
" is only 2 years old and needs a new carb!!) " You don't need a NEW carb. You need new neoprene rubber components with in the carb and/or fuel pump. [Most likely]
We have a petroleum co. here in Punta Gorda that sells non-ethanol gas. Check local marinas to see if they sell non-ethanol marine gas.
hinmo,
In our area several Marathon stations and some Citgo stations sell what is called Rec 90 fuel which is ethanol free. I believe this is Recreational 90 fuel and can be found at stations near boating areas. Just look and ask around, you might be quite surprised. Lots of trailerable boats fill their tanks at these stations for two reasons. One, it is cheaper than the fuel at marinas on the water. And two, it is ethanol-free and folks want to avoid potential damage to their outboards despite the increased cost per gallon.
Not only do I use ethanol-free fuel in my fuel sipping YAMAHA 4 HP on the Sun Cat, but I also fill my 20 gallon tank on the 17 1/2' Bayliner Bow Rider with Rec 90 fuel to quench the greater thirst of the Mercury 90 HP outboard kicker!
Happy hunting!
capt_nemo
In Lynchburg, Virginia, we have at least three gas stations that have ethanol-free high octane gasoline. One even sells a mid grade. Cost of fuel is irrelevant when you gasoline power a small sailboat.
All brands of gasoline have a legal minimum detergent package in their products. "Top Tier" (do a Google search) brands like Exxon and BP have two times the legal minimum. High Octane Shell brand has over 4 times the legal minimum. First effort to get a stumbling auto engine to run smoothly is to run two or three tanks of top grade Shell through the car. [I have no commercial interests in Exxon, BP, or Shell.]
Citroen/Dave
C/Dave - not worried about price of gas, was referring to above post about cost of a electric motor.....I'd pay $20/gal fro some e-free fuel
C'mon Dave: We all know your real name is Dave Shell!
Thanks for the info on high detergent gasolines...very informative...probably not a bad idea to run some of that high end Shell stuff through the car and truck every once in a while.
Bob23
I really like the trolling motor it works well in my situation. I have my boat in a marina at a state park lake. I have no current, no tides only wind to deal with.
It is a 45lbs thrust Minn Kota Endura. You do have to cart deep cycle batteries around, but I prefer that to gas. 5 forward speeds, 3 reverse and starts every time with a twist of the handle. Boat speed is about 2.5 mph by gps max.
Nope. Last name is Woolley, not trying to pull the wool over any . . . well you get the idea.
The battery can be charged a number of ways:
-Lug it home to charge it using an appropriate charger for the battery type you choose (bring a cart/caddy to help save your back)
-Charge via a dock power outlet (if available) with the same charger as above.
-Mount a solar panel and charge controller to the boat (rail mount is best)
-Mount a wind generator with charge controller ($$$). Note there are DIY instructions on how to make one yourself.
-Use an outboard or dedicated generator to charge them (which kinda defeats the purpose of avoiding ethanol)
I've had zero problems with ethanol on the 2 stroke yamaha 8hp. it has large jets that don't clog easily, I drain the gas each season and spray "deep creek", which is Seafoam in an aerosol can, in the fuel line to keep the carb free of gunk that may of built up at seasons' end. And I only fill the tank with 2 gallons and keep it fresh with seafoam and Starbrite enzyme treatment. I usually add 1 gallon at a time, about once a month.
I think the smaller jets on the carbs of the 4 strokes are much more particular to dirt. And by dirt I mean solid particles in fuel (either by accident or by chemical reactions with rubber). Small dirt particles pass through larger jets, but clog smaller ones.
Just installed a trolling motor on my Picnic Cat. Even at the minimum size 30lbs thrust model, it moves her quite well and the silence is wonderful after the racket of the old 3hp Yugoslavian Tomos 2-stroke air-cooled beast. The Group 24 Deep-cycle battery is in a Minn-Kota battery box in the locker in the bow just aft of the mast step with 8ga wires run back to a socket near the motor. Interesting that Minn-Kota tell you to use 8ga minimum but only have 12ga on the pigtail attached to their motor (cheapskates)! Since the boat is kept in my garage (one of the joys of the PC), charging is from a charger attached to the house supply. The locker lid is kept open when charging in case H2 is evolved as a consequence of overcharging (minor correction to skip1930's post...H2 can be generated when charging but not when discharging). Unless your CP16's cabin is unusually airtight, H2 is probably not a major concern, but I'd still be cautious of it if it was left charging unattended, especially with a solar (or wind) set-up as I'm not sure I'd trust the regulators to shut off completely at the full-charge point.
Unless I were in a major tideway/current or in a narrow channel, I wouldn't worry too much about size of motor as you could be using the sails in anything other than a flat calm anyway. The French are masters of this and, when I learned to sail in the English Channel, we were always amazed at how many French boats would arrive on the our side with no motors at all in 20 to 30 foot boats and the only means of auxilliary propulsion being a single sculling oar.
i just bought a used Nissan 3.5 2strk yesterday off CL. It has F/N. I am familiar with this model engine, cuz I already own one......of the three different manufacturers I own, the Nissan/Tohatsu 2s seems the most reliable, and its carb is easy to remove and clean. We'll scrap the electric motor thought for now, until the next ethanol debacle.
Thanks