Hello All,
I am considering a Compac 19 for my next boat. I want to be able to raise & lower the mast myself. Looking through the archives I see there have been discussions about raising the mast solo. In 2006 Marcus posted photos & a narrative but I can't find them. Has anyone got some specific info/diagrams/photos I can refer to? I owned a Rhodes 22 and use to raise the mast myself on that boat, but it was really a cumbersome procedure.
I'll be living in Falmouth, Massachusetts and my sailing grounds will be Buzzards Bay, Cape Cod Bay & Vineyard Sound. I am torn between the stability and accommodations of a Compac 19 vs the ease of launching a Suncat & its shallow draft. Yea, I know. I've got to decide what I really want, but feel free to throw your 2 cents in. Thanks.
Marc
Doesn't the SunCat have the mast-tender raising system?
You could rig up a Gin-Pole for the 19.....
http://slowflight.net/upgrades/tips-GinPole.html
Personally I like Sloops, but Cat's are easier to sail. I like to have someone on the ground when I step the mast. The wife holds a tow strap connected to the front stay and I just muscle it up. Maybe in a few years I will build a gin pole like above.
A Cat Boat would fit in better in New England though.
Have you considered a Horizon Cat???
I just tie a line to my furler and run that through the anchor bow line roller and down to the trailer then run the mast up on my shoulder. When I hit the end of the cock pit the person on the end of the safety line tied to the furler holds the line while I climb up on the doghouse and continue to push the mast up. As I push up the safety line is kept snug. Takes about 40 seconds. Then put in the $50.00 Harken pin at the furler and tighten the back standing stay.
Can do all this on land or water. If water just run the safety line back to cleat in the cockpit.
skip.
For my 23, I basically do the same thing as Skip. My mast raising happens while the boat is still on the trailer so I stand in the bed of my pickup with a line that is tied to the masthead. Then whatever friend I have conned into helping me hoists the mast up on his shoulder while I pull like the dickens. The trick is to do it fast and make sure all the stays and shrouds are clear BEFORE you raise the mast.
I'm sure the 19 is easier...shorter mast. I like the link Billy posted. I may give it a try this spring.
I've never owned a 19 but have sailed on 2 of 'em. Great boats. very stable and forgiving.
Marc:
Welcome to the site. But beware: when you throw an offer "to throw in your 2 cents" to this lot, you better be prepared for some good old fashioned friendly harrassment. Not that I would ever do such a thing....
bob23
Billy,
Thanks for your link to using a gin pole. It was just what I was looking for & seems easy enough to implement.
I have seriously considered a cat boat. Looked at a Suncat for the 1st time last weekend. The impression I came away with was that it was pretty light. I'd like the security of a more stable boat in higher winds. What attracted me to the Suncat in the 1st place is its ease of launching, ease of raising the mast and accolades of its sailing ability & comfort. Just don't think it is enough boat for me. I've also thought about the Horizon Cat. Looks like a boat that would work for me & like you said, it has a lot of character, but not ready to spend that much.
Skip,
When you run the line down to the trailer, are you wrapping the line once around the tongue to get enough friction to control the mast? Ever have problems with side to side sway? What's this mast weigh anyway?
Bob, Just got your response as I was about to press 'send'. I could use some harrassment about now. I keep mulling ease of launch vs stability. Although there are plenty of boat ramps around here, I really don't think I'd enjoy a launch & retrieval for every sail. My last boat was at a marina with quick access to Long Island Sound. If I had 3 hours, I had enough time to go out for a sail. I'm sure I couldn't do that if I was trailering even with a Suncat. So that puts me at a slip or mooring. One thing I was surprised about is that the marinas I've talked with have told me I have to get my boat out of the marina property if a hurricane is approaching. That's why I think a Compac 19 would fit the bill. Big enough to negotiate snotty weather if encountered but small enough so I could get it out of the water on short notice.
Marc
Marc:
My 23 lives on a mooring during the summer. If I had to trailer and launch and sailboat just to go for a sail, I probably wouldn't own one. Definetly not a 23. Even my Force 5 is moored.
For stability and ease of occasional launch and retrieval, a 19 is a great choice. The Suncat is a great boat. If you have any questions about 'em, Capt. Nemo and a host of others can answer any questions you may have.
The best thing to do in the case of a hurricane is to get the boat out in deep water, tie an anchor line to the top of the mast and use one of the winches to completely flip the boat upside down with the keel sticking up. The keel has much less windage than that big old mast plus when the hurricance comes by, it'll usually wash any growth that may be on the bottom. Because of the airtightness of the Compacs, the boat will not sink due to the air trapped in the upside down boat. You can even hang out in there yourself for a while until you run out of air. It's best to remove the sails before you submerge the mast, but, hey- I'm not gonna tell you what to do!
Disclaimer: I've never actually tried this so if you do, please report back here.
bob23
Skip - your quote "$50.00 Harken pin at the furler" - does that mean you are using a quick release pin for the furler / jib / front stay or whatever the correct name of that is?
rmotley...No, the pin skip is talking about is a special pin made for the Harken OOAL furler. Machined to the right length to allow the furler to snap onto it to keep from twisting the base, and of course secure the forestay. I use one myself so now the pin he's talking about.
Not quick disconnect, you must use a cotter pin to secure it.
Skip..BTW the pin is now quite a bit cheaper. $30 if i recall correctly. Still outrageously expensive no question.
Quote from: Bob23 on January 05, 2012, 07:13:02 PM
The best thing to do in the case of a hurricane is to get the boat out in deep water, tie an anchor line to the top of the mast and use one of the winches to completely flip the boat upside down with the keel sticking up. The keel has much less windage than that big old mast plus when the hurricance comes by, it'll usually wash any growth that may be on the bottom. Because of the airtightness of the Compacs, the boat will not sink due to the air trapped in the upside down boat. You can even hang out in there yourself for a while until you run out of air. It's best to remove the sails before you submerge the mast, but, hey- I'm not gonna tell you what to do!
Disclaimer: I've never actually tried this so if you do, please report back here.
Don't forget you need to tie up to a safewater buoy otherwise your mast will get damaged when it hits the shallows. Lots of jockeying for those spots around here. You need to make your decision early to get a good spot.
Marc, my 23 mast raising system is detailed in the articles section of this forum. I have used it to lower and raise my mast about a dozen times always by myself. It takes about twenty minutes to set it up and use it. I have done it both on the water and on the trailer. It can stow on the boat if necessary although unless I know I will need it on the water I keep it in the back of my truck or on the trailer. I would post a direct link, but having some computer problems and can't copy and paste from the URL box. Be sure to go to the original link from "Tropical Boating" first for additional info on how the system works.
That said, I concur that I would not want to have to keep the boat mast down and have to prep to launch every time I sail. It is not the mast raising that is difficult but all the other prep work for tow.
good luck with your analysis.
Having thought about this a while it seems to me like raising and lowering masts is significantly determined by what physical condition you are in and how much "umph" you want to put into it. Obviously on larger boats the heavy mast is too much to reasonably lift and therefore a raising "system" is required. Having owed my 19 for 17+ years and setting the mast at least a couple times a year and since I am in average shape for a 50 year old, I think it is very manageable to be done by myself. But if you have back problems, don't have the strength or are fearful of loosing control of it, then having a system is going to be needed. Mind you if I had to set the mast each time I went out on the 19, I would sell the boat and downsize.
Just my 2 cents.
Lafayette Bruce
sadly the last sentence in your post keeps me in my 16. it requires no special rig and more importantly no help.
Brackish - Thanks for the info. Between what you wrote & Billy's link, I'm sure I can put a system together.
Lafayette Bruce - Knowing that this can be a 1 man job without mechanical aids is a big help. I've only raised masts on 22 foot boats and they all required a couple of guys. I'm in good shape but will probably use a gin pole anyway. I'd rather be safe than sorry- especially the 1st time.
On another topic - can anyone direct me to some interior pictures. I'm particularly interested in where the porta potti is located. I've read that many of you use WAG bags, but don't think I'll go that route.
Marc
I don't know what the mast weighs, may 50 lb? But your not picking up the whole mast at anyone time.
The Harkin pin [I have an extra one in the boat's tool bag] was $50 now $30.
No not a lot of twist. The bottom is in and loosly bolted to the tabernacle I use fender washers 'tween mast and inside of tabernacle and again on the outsides of the tabernacle. It's a bolt with a thumb butterfly nut. The port and starboard standing rigging kind of support the mast on the way up. Limits sway. Bigest problem I have is having the standing rigging get caught under the eye brow when the mast is going up.
The safety line tied to furler is actually cleated around the wire cleat welded on my trailer's tongue for the extra wiring when the tongue is extended. Every 180 deg change in line direction your cutting the pull in half. The nice thing about this is anybody on that line can hold the mast while the 'lifter guy' get re~situated.
skip.
i'm 52, short, have 2 bad knees and 2 bad shoulders, and i set the mast on our 19 myself.
place it in the tabernacle with the top resting on the stern rail and slack in the backstay.
"fold" the shrouds inside to keep them from grabbing the eyebrow, winches, and such.
i slip a block on the hook for the jib's tack and run the main halyard through it.
standing on the cabin top, use your legs to lift the mast up vertical, leaning your shoulder against it once it's vertical.
pull the halyard tight and wrap it off on it's cleat on the mast.
now i just attach the furler and tighten the backstay.
the mast is light and short so there isn't much sway. just don't try to hurry it up.
however you raise the mast, practice it over and over in your driveway to work out all the kinks.
as you practice, you'll discover what to watch while the mast goes up and become efficient at it.
don't let a small obstacle like raising the mast stand between you and the boat of your dreams, i have to trailer her 2 hours to the closet sailing waters and then set her up. after many practices, i can have her set up and in the water within 20 minutes
carl
Carl, Doesn't get simpler than that.
Thanks.
Marc
Marc:
About your post regarding getting a good spot: True, but I leave a marked mooring in tied to a storm anchor so I can capsize the boat as I mentioned above. It's good to practice this a few times before the actual hurricane arrives. Let us know how it works out for you.
This is my boat tied up before Irene arrived last summer here in NJ:
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/Bob23_photo/AfterIrene1.jpg)
She was fine the next day. Yeah, I guess 15 lines might have been a bit overkill but I really do live my 23!
btw: Lowering the mast wasn't that hard. I do depend on a friend for this. Gives us a good excuse to throw back a few cold ones together.
bob23
Koinonia seems to enjoy the bondage thing, Eh?
tg
dont take this wrong carl but at this coming rendezvous ill have a stop watch.
On another topic - can anyone direct me to some interior pictures. I'm particularly interested in where the porta potti is located. I've read that many of you use WAG bags, but don't think I'll go that route.
I can't show you interior pics, but it doesn't have to be either/or with the WAG bags. They work just fine with the porta potty. Generally, I keep my porta potty waste tank freshly charged all the time and if on a longer cruise use it, then dump when I return. However, if just going out for a day sail or even a short overnighter, particularly with the ladies aboard, I generally provide WAG bags to use with the toilet. Keeps me from having to dump the waste tank so often or leave the waste aboard for long periods of time.
I have an old 5 gallon paint bucket with a toilet seat lid that pops onto the bucket. I use the bags with this set up.
When not in use I keep it behind (under) the companionway steps.
marc...here's a pic for you. The porti potty sits right behind the companionway step. This is a CP19.
After that picture was taken, I installed an eye on the rear of the door with a line/snap shackle on it to clip to a short pendant off the sliding hatch door hasp.
Lift the door, connect the shackle, pull out the potty and do your business. That way you don't have to hold the door up. Gives some privacy too.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/DSC01545.jpg)
It takes us pretty darn close to an hour to get the CP19 in the water. But, we only do this a handful of times a year so we're not too polished at it. Most of the work is not mast raising related. It's everything else (running lines, installing boom/sails, hooking up motor, double checking things, etc).
If we didn't rent a slip I would have kept the CP16..much quicker to get going.
My better half already nixed the idea of bags. I'm not too crazy about them either. We'll see how it works out. Last boat had a real head with 20 gallon holding tank so we're spoiled. I like the porta potti under the steps. It's out of the way yet easily accessible and as far away from the sleeping area as possible.
Anyway, I think this boat would be perfect for us. If you know of any for sale, please let me know.
Thanks.
Marc
This isn't a big boat, maybe you guys are making this more complicated than need be? I've owned my CP19II since 1998 and have raised and lowered the mast more times than I can count...with no mechanical contraptions and most often single handed. As previously posted, I slide the mast aft over the stern rail, insert bolt through tabernacle and mast, make sure shrouds and backstay are secure and free to run, and stick the forestay turnbuckle in my pocket. I stand on the cabin roof (at the hatch area), straddle the mast, and lift. Then I shuffle backwards pulling the mast up as I go until it's upright. Then as I keep tension on the forestay I move to the bow pulpit where I secure the turnbuckle to the bow chainplate (is that the right term?). Easy peasy.
I've done this with the boat inclined aft (on boat ramp) and on the water (to get under bridges and to fix a wind vane). Only minor issues are fouling the shrouds or backstay when raising the mast or losing the pin that secures the forestay turnbuckle; just means having to lower mast and start over. Otherwise never had a problem. I'm 49 and reasonably fit, but certainly no power lifter. The mast really isn't that heavy.
HTH,
Keith
i imagine that i could step the mast by myself with no problem. but im pretty spoiled with my 16. i guess what i need to do is talk an owner in letting me try. im 59 and not getting any younger and i would sure like to sail for at least 10 more years maybe more. i found a 19 in my area and will be talking to the owner soon. i would like to have a bigger boat if only to take a few more people along. overnighting is not a concern as the only sailboat she would spend the night on better be 45 feet or so. thanks for the input.
I'm with Keith on this one. The 19's mast is quite easy to raise. It isn't all that much more than the 16's mast. I've thought about building a PVC crutch to support the mast two or three feet over the cabin. This way you can put the tabernacle pin in, lift the mast up on your shoulder from inside the cockpit, place the PVC crutch under the mast, step up onto the cabin without lifting anything, and then lift the mast from this partially raised position.
Right now I don't need this, but down the road I may.
Mike
mike, a guy over my way has a 19 for sale. if he will let me raise and lower the mast and i find it "easy" (you know how lazy i am) then i might consider it. this would mean selling both the 16 and the fishing boat however. gotta think on that one.
Kick, I know you two would love the 19. I saw the grin on your face when you had the tiller on mine. Ok, maybe that was from the beer. I really think that a simple crutch to hold the mast up a few degrees before you lift it would really make it pretty easy. I'm going to try it this spring, even though I don't think it is necessary.
Brenda and I also took the turnbuckle off the forestay and replaced it with a Johnson Quicklever. This made the forestay attachment so much easier.
If you get a 19 then Carl can teach you that neat "snag the deck chair off the dock without looking" trick. He promised me he would show me how this year.
Mike
Marc,
Some time a go I posted under the Eclipse section on how I raise my mast using the trailer winch, much safer and I can do it by my self.
I have the mast tender system but like using the trailer winch much better.
Glenn
mike,
the idea of hanging a deck chair off the bow pulpit came to me when i saw brenda relaxing on the foredeck of your 19.
i thought ...wow! that looks sooo relaxing! i'll bet joanie would love to have her own chair foreward so she can chillax and watch the bow split the waves.
Glenn,
I found your earlier post.
Thanks. Marc
Quote from: crazycarl on January 17, 2012, 12:35:44 AM
mike,
the idea of hanging a deck chair off the bow pulpit came to me when i saw brenda relaxing on the foredeck of your 19.
i thought ...wow! that looks sooo relaxing! i'll bet joanie would love to have her own chair foreward so she can chillax and watch the bow split the waves.
Let's see now. That means you would have the first mate dangling off the bow AND a tall lanky deckhand dragging in the water from the stern at the same time?
Hee hee hee!
Mike
well...yea. you have balance the boat to get the best performance out of her
carl
Always important to balance the boat, even if the Captain is unbalanced! :D
that's me! a wobbly aubele!