I'm thinking of getting a larger head sail for my cp16 and wanted to hear what others like and dislike about flying a 155 on the cp16. I only have the original 100% jib/table cloth. Is the 155% overkill? Or...just right? Would a 135% be just as good or better for any reason? How well do they behave when tacking? I single-hand 100% of the time, so, I want to be sure I can tack a larger head sail without having to help it through the fore triangle every time. Is anyone using a gennaker or a code 0 on the cp16? Thanks!
I hope a 135 will be a good upgrade as I just ordered new sails from National Sail Supply last week. Based on comments I read in other posts it sounded like a good idea for light air/winds under 10mph. I'm thinking a 135 will take me up to 15mph winds with a reef in the main. Beyond that, I will still have the 100 for really breezy days. I thought about going with a 155 but had the same reservations you seem to have. Seemed like overkill. Had a 150 on my Hunter 23 and I'd let it backfill on a tack before releasing the sheet. It would suck itself through the fore triangle. I'm sure the 135 and probably the 155 will do so too... so long as the hatch isn't open or there isn't something else up there to hang up on.
Good question. I don't know the answer of 155%, 135% or 100% on a C-P 16. I do know that is very light winds my C-P 19 fitted with a factory 155% [stops right even with the closed companionway hatch] is a pain to tac. That said it's not impossible to tac but the sheet on the windward side may have to 'pull' it through the triangle.
In good wind, no problem. Folds up, slips right through and unfolds. Gives me just enough time to sheet in three times around the winch and cleat it down. Kind of busy when doing this and hanging onto the tiller...guess that's why it's called sailing.
skip.
If you are using hanks and your 110% is serviceable then a 150/155 would be a good addition and really won't create any problems in handling. You will need genoa tracks for the sheets. When the wind picks up you simply hank on the 110%. You may wish to also invest in a storm jib if you plan on being out there no matter what. Plus you get a lot of healthy exercise.
If you don't wish to change head sails for varying wind conditions then stick with a 110% (working jib). It's easier to sail under powered than over powered. Remember, the other sail is called the "main" sail and can do a pretty good job when in good condition and properly shaped and trimmed, no matter what's up front.
A common choice for furlers is 135% as they offer a little extra in light air and can furl to a smaller profile with out too much distortion of shape.
I chose to stick with a 110% on my 19 with a furler because I wanted to keep it simple and use the existing sheet fairleads. I use a North G3 spinnaker/gennaker (small flat asymmetrical) which is a bit more than a 155%. The nylon takes a deep shape in light air with more area in the upper section, and can be poled out for running dead downwind. I use a sock so spinnaker handling is reliable. You can use fixed sheet leads and will need to add a spinnaker halyard as it needs to be outside (above) the forestay. But be careful, as spinnakers are addictive. When it is set and pulling nicely in a light breeze - gee it's hard to take down when the time comes.
Without going into specifics at this point my opinion is that a Code 0 is not really appropriate for our modest barges (did I really say that).
Ron
I ordered a 155 this year and have been using exclusively on a homemade PVC roller furler. Usage has been about twice a week since early May with 2-4 hours stints each run.
The drawbacks I've seen are: 1.) The sheets sometimes (maybe 10% of tacks) get caught on the mast cleats during a tack and 2.) In very light air, the clew sometimes catches on the shrouds after a tack and before the sail is shaped properly. The first one requires you to get up and untangle the sheet (easy) the second requires a little patience and releasing the jib sheet slightly to wait for the sail to move mast the shroud OR to force it past the shroud with a firm tug on the sheets, which I don't like doing. In medium air, #2 is no problem at all.
The 155 is very versatile. I only reef it around the furler in either heavy wind or when I need to slow down a bit for whatever reason. Generally whenthe wind is blowing hard it's reefed down to abuot half the size, perhaps less.
Disclaimer: My 155 was cut to be 12" shorter in the luff to accomodate the space of the roller furler. Therefore the extra sail area seems to be (guessing here) made up by a longer foot--thus perhaps causing both issues.
Obviously what is nice is I can reef it to be whatever size I want in no more than 5 seconds.
Genoa tracks and the proper line cleat are definitely needed for the 155 to keep the right sail shape.
What are cleats doing on the mast? Except getting in the way.
skip.
Quote from: skip on July 28, 2009, 01:20:32 AM
What are cleats doing on the mast? Except getting in the way.
skip.
They are the original halyard cleats. I do only use the starboard side for the topping lift---perhaps I will take the port side off?
My O'Day 20 and my Hunter 23 both had halyard cleats on the mast from the factory. I did move the cleats to the coach roof on the Hunter when I re-routed the halyards back to the cockpit.
Quote from: Salty16 on July 28, 2009, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: skip on July 28, 2009, 01:20:32 AM
What are cleats doing on the mast? Except getting in the way.
skip.
They are the original halyard cleats. I do only use the starboard side for the topping lift---perhaps I will take the port side off?
Salty16
What are the dimensions on your 155%, luff and foot? I got a quote from super sailmakers for a 155%, $357, I asked for the dimensions and they replied with 12.8' luff and 7.65' foot. My current jib, 110% I think, is 12' luff and 6.42' foot. I was expecting the 155% to have a longer foot?
Thanks, Adam
That did sound smaller than I would have expected. Which model are you sailing? I have a 16-3. I went out in the garage and measured the distance from the tack to the mast. On mine it is 5'6 but if you don't have a bow sprit it is probably more like 4'6. I suppose 7'7 is about right for a 150 if you don't have a bow sprit.
Quote from: adschmid on July 28, 2009, 09:01:20 PM
Salty16
What are the dimensions on your 155%, luff and foot? I got a quote from super sailmakers for a 155%, $357, I asked for the dimensions and they replied with 12.8' luff and 7.65' foot. My current jib, 110% I think, is 12' luff and 6.42' foot. I was expecting the 155% to have a longer foot?
Thanks, Adam
BTW: I recently ordered a new genoa from National Sail Supply. I looked it up and it has the same measurements as the one you were quoted but the cost was $225.00. $315 for the new main.
Quote from: adschmid on July 28, 2009, 09:01:20 PM
Salty16
What are the dimensions on your 155%, luff and foot? I got a quote from super sailmakers for a 155%, $357, I asked for the dimensions and they replied with 12.8' luff and 7.65' foot. My current jib, 110% I think, is 12' luff and 6.42' foot. I was expecting the 155% to have a longer foot?
Thanks, Adam
i ditched my cleats mike and never had that problem again.
I'll be yanking those cleats off soon. The topping lift can be tied off elsewhere. Skip and kicknbug...thanks for the tip.
As for measurements, the boat is in a slip so next time I go sailing I'll measure the foot for you guys.
I got the 155 from National a couple of years ago... I use it for anything up to about 15mph winds but have gotten "caught" out when the wind really picked up and although I had to point close hauled to keep from being overpowered, it wasn't a problem. If you use the hanked on version, you will be fine. I think the prob I read about with the 19 relates to sheeting inside the shrouds. Since we sheet outside, I've never had a prob tacking with it. Also the other post about the genoa tracks is correct... those will make it shape correctly.
Happy Sails to you
Dale
Hey 16 owners - if you sail in an area of generally light air you may want to consider a asymmetrical spinnaker. You can get more sail area and more of it up high (relatively speaking) on our short masts, compared to a genoa. You can sail upwind with a fairly flat cut like a North G3, and use it effectively off the wind - even dead downwind with a pole. Rigging is also simpler in that all you need is a halyard and use the stern cleats as sheeting points. Because of the relatively low loads the halyard can be used to control the luff tension. Use a penant on the tack of the sail with a snap shackle on the bow pulpit for a quick release when dousing. You can either use a sleeve to douse - works nice, or douse by blanketing with the main then recovering the sail under the boom into the bag in the cockpit. Sailing a spinnaker is a real blast and the only thing to keep in mind is the same general precaution - reduce sail before you are forced to do so. Spinnakers can get freaky when overpowered like any other sail combination, but in different ways, so if you're sailing downwind and gusts are pushing you to the limit it is probably time to douse. You don't bring a boat head to weather with a spinnaker up.
This was the choice I made for my 19 because I wanted to keep the simplicity of the furling jib and fixed sheeting angles. These boats don't point any higher because of the shoal keel so bigger sails will just give you more power in light air. There is a big difference between a 40' J boat flying a 150 to windward, and our modest pocket yachts. I always remind everyone that these aren't race boats but that doesn't mean they aren't fun to sail, and a spinnaker adds much to that fun.
Ron
Ive always been a little afraid of spinakers. I've seen boats broach with them up. But, after a few outings in light air I can see why you favor one. I'll watch eBay and see if I can come up with something workable. I have an extra spinaker pole in the garage from back when I owned an O'Day 20. I can probably make that work for me on a run...
Quote from: Potcake boy on August 13, 2009, 10:37:42 AM
Hey 16 owners - if you sail in an area of generally light air you may want to consider a asymmetrical spinnaker. You can get more sail area and more of it up high (relatively speaking) on our short masts, compared to a genoa. You can sail upwind with a fairly flat cut like a North G3, and use it effectively off the wind - even dead downwind with a pole. Rigging is also simpler in that all you need is a halyard and use the stern cleats as sheeting points. Because of the relatively low loads the halyard can be used to control the luff tension. Use a penant on the tack of the sail with a snap shackle on the bow pulpit for a quick release when dousing. You can either use a sleeve to douse - works nice, or douse by blanketing with the main then recovering the sail under the boom into the bag in the cockpit. Sailing a spinnaker is a real blast and the only thing to keep in mind is the same general precaution - reduce sail before you are forced to do so. Spinnakers can get freaky when overpowered like any other sail combination, but in different ways, so if you're sailing downwind and gusts are pushing you to the limit it is probably time to douse. You don't bring a boat head to weather with a spinnaker up.
This was the choice I made for my 19 because I wanted to keep the simplicity of the furling jib and fixed sheeting angles. These boats don't point any higher because of the shoal keel so bigger sails will just give you more power in light air. There is a big difference between a 40' J boat flying a 150 to windward, and our modest pocket yachts. I always remind everyone that these aren't race boats but that doesn't mean they aren't fun to sail, and a spinnaker adds much to that fun.
Ron
Steve - the North G3 I use is a relatively small and flat cut - it is probably more like a nylon screacher than a full cut spinnaker. It is pretty easy to control, and not so likely to do the freaky things spinnakers are known for doing. I was broad reaching in 15-18 knots one fine day and took my focus off my steering just long enough for the boat to be skewed around upwind by a quarter wave. The flogging was not too bad, but when the spinnaker again filled on the reach the shock to my rigging was pretty obvious. It was enough to make me realize that I was past due on dousing the spinnaker. That's the big problem with spinnakers - when they are set and drawing nicely it's just so hard to bring yourself to putting them away. After you have set and sailed a spinnaker enough to get comfortable with the procedure you'll have the confidence to pull her out every opportunity. I got mine in solid white for the classic look. From North it was about $500 then I spent another couple hundred for a sleeve and turtle bag from Shaw - Chutescoop. I have purchased from Shaw before and recommend their products. I prefer their Chute scoop to ATN in part because the hoop is less bulky, and yes you can douse or reduce (reef) the sail while it is drawing which makes it even easier in a tricky situation to get the spinnaker under control.
P.S. Almost all of my sailing is either single handed or with non-crew aboard. I do depend heavily on TillerMon my tiller pilot, the best crew I've ever had.
I just got a "Drifter" (assymetrical spinnaker) last fall from Dirk at National Sails... I think it was around $180... not bad.
It works great in light air and you can still get upwind if you sheet in close... but the most fun is on a reach in NO air.
Cheers
Dale
Here's a pic
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-pac/photos/album/712582202/pic/1604656894/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&dir=asc
multimedia_smith,
thanks for the post and picture! We have been thinking about a light air sail. This looks great.
Dale, I'm registered with Yahoo now and I can finally see the pictures. Nice Drifter, much like the one I had on my Hunter 23 for light air. I'm going to buy one for my CP-16. Thanks for the suggestion. Just what I need for those days when the winds are closer to 5mph. I just hate it when I'm just floating around out there, especially when I have to deal with wake that slaps the boom around.
Steve
Quote from: multimedia_smith on August 16, 2009, 05:22:02 AM
I just got a "Drifter" (assymetrical spinnaker) last fall from Dirk at National Sails... I think it was around $180... not bad.
It works great in light air and you can still get upwind if you sheet in close... but the most fun is on a reach in NO air.
Cheers
Dale
Here's a pic
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-pac/photos/album/712582202/pic/1604656894/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&dir=asc
Dirk Sharland in Fla handles Rolley Tasker in the U.S.
The nice thing is that he has kept the dimensions of the sails we have designed together...
Heavy air main, Storm Jib, 155 cut for pennant, new jib, and Drifter... dimensions for which are below.
15'2" luff
5'5" from tack shackle to front edge of mast
14' from tack to stern sheeting point of genoa track cam cleat.
Lightweight nylon piston hanks
Bottom third- Blue
Middle third - White
Top third - Red
His Contact info is below... good luck
Dale
Dirk Sharland
National Sail Supply, LLC (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)
26092 Withrow Rd
Brooksville, FL 34601
1-800-611-3823
fax 813-200-1385
from outside of US 352-540-9101
www.nationalsail.com
Hi Dale, I have a couple of questions for you. What is the wind range of you drifter compared to your 155% genoa? Is your drifter about 70 sq ft?
My 'barge' only has a 155% headsail. And this lapper stops it's foot right at the closed, most sternward edge of the companionway hatch on my Com Pac-19.
IF i'm going to hold tac for a few hours and the wind is light I'll be tempted to break out the asymetrical spinnaker and once set think about the main. But that's a lot of work for one scruffy sailor when he's trying to get some shut eye with the tiller Forespar'ed down. Yea I have fallen asleep under sail. We all do dumb things.
skip.
I use the 155 for most conditions, however I got the "drifter" assymetrical last fall... and it IS a lot of fun, especially in lighter air
Here's a pic of the new Drifter... sorry I can't seem to past images... but you can find this pic on the "other" Com Pac site
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-pac/photos/album/712582202/pic/1604656894/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc
When I click the icon to "insert image"... I can't seem to paste into the cursor area between the "(img) words...
Can anybody give me some direction?
Thanks in advance
Dale
Here is a test for posting.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/shootingiron.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/DeadJeep.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/StarKnockDown001.jpg)
I started the verbage of this post. Modify this Post and minimize this post.
I logged on to my Photobucket.
I select the picture in Photobucket I want to post by placing the cursor on this picture. A drop down menu happens.
I put the cursor on the box below the picture and above the drop down menu. And left clicked this box. The pic is highlighted.
I left click 'Direct Link' in the drop down menu. Then go up and under 'Edit' in the tool bar I left click 'Copy'.
I maximize my 'Modify Message' parked at the bottom of the 'Start' tool bar, or whatever it's called.
I place the cursor and left click within the verbage of the post where I want to place a picture from my Photobucket.
I go up to the tool bar of the Modified Post Message.
I left click 'Image insert' above the post. That's the icon that looks like a framed pic of a yellow beach w/ trees in the back ground.
I see this [Img]winking cursor[Img] where I'm placing the picture. The cursor stays put and then...
I right click and then right click paste.
I see the 'Direct Link' code between these [img] [Img] things for all three pictures I'm posting out of Photobucket.
Each picture from Photobucket is posted one at a time.
I remember to un-click the check marked box under each posted picture. Otherwise the same picture will be posted again.
I click 'Save' and I should see three pictures plus this verbage in the post.
I kept modifying this post till I got it right. I took careful notes in order to provide this guide.
Took about an hour.
skip.
HI Skip,
Thanks for taking the time on the photo notes... Does this mean that I have to load my photos into PhotoBucket first? I'm not a member of that service.
Oh... and an answer to a question a couple of posts back... The Drifter is good from practically no wind up to about 10.
The 155 is good for "enough wind to sail" up to about 15... although I have been caught in building conditions with the 155 and if you point high enough, it's OK... but you'll wish you had the 110 on. The 60% "storm jib" is good from about 18 up.
Best to y'all.
Great cartoons Skip.
Dale
Yes, you have to load your pictures on Photobucket first. It is a free service and the process is very easy.
http://s556.photobucket.com/
The "direct link" that you can copy for pictures is the method used to attach pictures to your profile as well. Just crop them square first or they will be distorted.
Quote from: multimedia_smith on October 10, 2009, 02:20:36 AM
Does this mean that I have to load my photos into PhotoBucket first? I'm not a member of that service.
Thanks Skip... OK "here goes nothin'" (hopefully not)
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad58/multi-mediacorp/Com%20Pac%2016%20III%20Projects/LooseFootedMain-2.jpg)
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad58/multi-mediacorp/Com%20Pac%2016%20III%20Projects/LooseFootedMain-1.jpg)
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad58/multi-mediacorp/Com%20Pac%2016%20III%20Projects/Assymetrical.jpg)
Let's see if this works... ain't technology somethin'?
Thanks
Dale
For those who missed it... here's Skip's instructions:
I started the verbage of this post. Modify this Post and minimize this post.
I logged on to my Photobucket.
I select the picture in Photobucket I want to post by placing the cursor on this picture. A drop down menu happens.
I put the cursor on the box below the picture and above the drop down menu. And left clicked this box. The pic is highlighted.
I left click 'Direct Link' in the drop down menu. Then go up and under 'Edit' in the tool bar I left click 'Copy'.
I maximize my 'Modify Message' parked at the bottom of the 'Start' tool bar, or whatever it's called.
I place the cursor and left click within the verbage of the post where I want to place a picture from my Photobucket.
I go up to the tool bar of the Modified Post Message.
I left click 'Image insert' above the post. That's the icon that looks like a framed pic of a yellow beach w/ trees in the back ground.
I see this [Img]winking cursor[Img] where I'm placing the picture. The cursor stays put and then...
I right click and then right click paste.
I see the 'Direct Link' code between these [img] [Img] things for all three pictures I'm posting out of Photobucket.
Each picture from Photobucket is posted one at a time.
I remember to un-click the check marked box under each posted picture. Otherwise the same picture will be posted again.
I click 'Save' and I should see three pictures plus this verbage in the post.
I kept modifying this post till I got it right. I took careful notes in order to provide this guide.
Took about an hour.
It's an '88... when I launch, people ask if it's new... That's one good thing about Trailer/Garage... That's where it weathered Katrina and Gustav... behind concrete reinforced walls...
I have a bunch of project pics... I just loaded everything onto PhotoBucket... all I need to do now is learn it.
Can't really take the time now as I'm learning all kinds of new video graphics programs for a museum film on deadline...
Gotta get back to work... but there is a cold front coming through this weekend... I'll be out there!
Cheers to y'all
Dale