155% genoa question

[adschmid]

I'm thinking of getting a larger head sail for my cp16 and wanted to hear what others like and dislike about flying a 155 on the cp16. I only have the original 100% jib/table cloth. Is the 155% overkill? Or...just right? Would a 135% be just as good or better for any reason? How well do they behave when tacking? I single-hand 100% of the time, so, I want to be sure I can tack a larger head sail without having to help it through the fore triangle every time. Is anyone using a gennaker or a code 0 on the cp16? Thanks!

[Steve Ullrich]

I hope a 135 will be a good upgrade as I just ordered new sails from National Sail Supply last week.  Based on comments I read in other posts it sounded like a good idea for light air/winds under 10mph.  I'm thinking a 135 will take me up to 15mph winds with a reef in the main.  Beyond that, I will still have the 100 for really breezy days.  I thought about going with a 155 but had the same reservations you seem to have.  Seemed like overkill.  Had a 150 on my Hunter 23 and I'd let it backfill on a tack before releasing the sheet.  It would suck itself through the fore triangle.  I'm sure the 135 and probably the 155 will do so too... so long as the hatch isn't open or there isn't something else up there to hang up on.

[Craig Weis]

Good question. I don't know the answer of 155%, 135% or 100% on a C-P 16. I do know that is very light winds my C-P 19 fitted with a factory 155% [stops right even with the closed companionway hatch] is a pain to tac. That said it's not impossible to tac but the sheet on the windward side may have to 'pull' it through the triangle.
In good wind, no problem. Folds up, slips right through and unfolds. Gives me just enough time to sheet in three times around the winch and cleat it down. Kind of busy when doing this and hanging onto the tiller...guess that's why it's called sailing.
skip.

[Potcake boy]

If you are using hanks and your 110% is serviceable then a 150/155 would be a good addition and really won't create any problems in handling.  You will need genoa tracks for the sheets.  When the wind picks up you simply hank on the 110%.  You may wish to also invest in a storm jib if you plan on being out there no matter what.  Plus you get a lot of healthy exercise.

If you don't wish to change head sails for varying wind conditions then stick with a 110% (working jib).  It's easier to sail under powered than over powered.  Remember, the other sail is called the "main" sail and can do a pretty good job when in good condition and properly shaped and trimmed, no matter what's up front.

A common choice for furlers is 135% as they offer a little extra in light air and can furl to a smaller profile with out too much distortion of shape.

I chose to stick with a 110% on my 19 with a furler because I wanted to keep it simple and use the existing sheet fairleads.  I use a North G3 spinnaker/gennaker (small flat asymmetrical) which is a bit more than a 155%. The nylon takes a deep shape in light air with more area in the upper section, and can be poled out for running dead downwind.  I use a sock so spinnaker handling is reliable.  You can use fixed sheet leads and will need to add a spinnaker halyard as it needs to be outside (above) the forestay.  But be careful, as spinnakers are addictive.  When it is set and pulling nicely in a light breeze - gee it's hard to take down when the time comes.

Without going into specifics at this point my opinion is that a Code 0 is not really appropriate for our modest barges (did I really say that). 

Ron

[Salty19]

I ordered a 155 this year and have been using exclusively on a homemade PVC roller furler.  Usage has been about twice a week since early May with 2-4 hours stints each run.

The drawbacks I've seen are:  1.) The sheets sometimes (maybe 10% of tacks) get caught on the mast cleats during a tack  and 2.) In very  light air, the clew sometimes catches on the shrouds after a tack and before the sail is shaped properly.  The first one requires you to get up and untangle the sheet (easy) the second requires a little patience and releasing the jib sheet slightly to wait for the sail to move mast the shroud OR to force it past the shroud with a firm tug on the sheets, which I don't like doing.  In medium air, #2 is no problem at all.

The 155 is very versatile. I only reef it around the furler in either heavy wind or when I need to slow down a bit for whatever reason.  Generally whenthe wind is blowing hard it's reefed down to abuot half the size, perhaps less.

Disclaimer:  My 155 was cut to be 12" shorter in the luff to accomodate the space of the roller furler.   Therefore the extra sail area seems to be (guessing here) made up by a longer foot--thus perhaps causing both issues. 

Obviously what is nice is I can reef it to be whatever size I want in no more than 5 seconds.

Genoa tracks and the proper line cleat are definitely needed for the 155 to keep the right sail shape.

[Craig Weis]

What are cleats doing on the mast? Except getting in the way.
skip.

[Salty19]

What are cleats doing on the mast? Except getting in the way.
skip.

They are the original halyard cleats.  I do only use the starboard side for the topping lift---perhaps I will take the port side off?

[Steve Ullrich]

My O'Day 20 and my Hunter 23 both had halyard cleats on the mast from the factory.  I did move the cleats to the coach roof on the Hunter when I re-routed the halyards back to the cockpit.

What are cleats doing on the mast? Except getting in the way.
skip.

They are the original halyard cleats.  I do only use the starboard side for the topping lift---perhaps I will take the port side off?

[adschmid]

Salty16
What are the dimensions on your 155%, luff and foot? I got a quote from super sailmakers for a 155%, $357, I asked for the dimensions and they replied with 12.8' luff and 7.65' foot. My current jib, 110% I think, is 12' luff and 6.42' foot. I was expecting the 155% to have a longer foot?
Thanks, Adam

[Steve Ullrich]

That did sound smaller than I would have expected.  Which model are you sailing? I have a 16-3.   I went out in the garage and measured the distance from the tack to the mast.  On mine it is 5'6 but if you don't have a bow sprit it is probably more like 4'6.  I suppose 7'7 is about right for a 150 if you don't have a bow sprit.

Salty16
What are the dimensions on your 155%, luff and foot? I got a quote from super sailmakers for a 155%, $357, I asked for the dimensions and they replied with 12.8' luff and 7.65' foot. My current jib, 110% I think, is 12' luff and 6.42' foot. I was expecting the 155% to have a longer foot?
Thanks, Adam

[Steve Ullrich]

BTW: I recently ordered a new genoa from National Sail Supply.  I looked it up and it has the same measurements as the one you were quoted but the cost was $225.00. $315 for the new main.

Salty16
What are the dimensions on your 155%, luff and foot? I got a quote from super sailmakers for a 155%, $357, I asked for the dimensions and they replied with 12.8' luff and 7.65' foot. My current jib, 110% I think, is 12' luff and 6.42' foot. I was expecting the 155% to have a longer foot?
Thanks, Adam

[kickingbug1]

 i ditched my cleats mike and never had that problem again.

[Salty19]

I'll be yanking those cleats off soon. The topping lift can be tied off elsewhere. Skip and kicknbug...thanks for the tip.

As for measurements, the boat is in a slip so next time I go sailing I'll measure the foot for you guys.

[multimedia_smith]

I got the 155 from National a couple of years ago... I use it for anything up to about 15mph winds but have gotten "caught" out when the wind really picked up and although I had to point close hauled to keep from being overpowered, it wasn't a problem.  If you use the hanked on version, you will be fine.  I think the prob I read about with the 19 relates to sheeting inside the shrouds.  Since we sheet outside, I've never had a prob tacking with it.  Also the other post about the genoa tracks is correct... those will make it shape correctly.
Happy Sails to you
Dale

[Potcake boy]

Hey 16 owners - if you sail in an area of generally light air you may want to consider a asymmetrical spinnaker.  You can get more sail area and more of it up high (relatively speaking) on our short masts, compared to a genoa.  You can sail upwind with a fairly flat cut like a North G3, and use it effectively off the wind - even dead downwind with a pole.  Rigging is also simpler in that all you need is a halyard and use the stern cleats as sheeting points.  Because of the relatively low loads the halyard can be used to control the luff tension.  Use a penant on the tack of the sail with a snap shackle on the bow pulpit for a quick release when dousing.  You can either use a sleeve to douse - works nice, or douse by blanketing with the main then recovering the sail under the boom into the bag in the cockpit. Sailing a spinnaker is a real blast and the only thing to keep in mind is the same general precaution - reduce sail before you are forced to do so.  Spinnakers can get freaky when overpowered like any other sail combination, but in different ways, so if you're sailing downwind and gusts are pushing you to the limit it is probably time to douse.  You don't bring a boat head to weather with a spinnaker up.

This was the choice I made for my 19 because I wanted to keep the simplicity of the furling jib and fixed sheeting angles.  These boats don't point any higher because of the shoal keel so bigger sails will just give you more power in light air.  There is a big difference between a 40' J boat flying a 150 to windward, and our modest pocket yachts.  I always remind everyone that these aren't race boats but that doesn't mean they aren't fun to sail, and a spinnaker adds much to that fun.

Ron