It's getting cold and snowy here in MA so of course I'm thinking about next summer's upgrades for my 1994 CP16/III/XL!
Does anybody have any experience with the Dwyer DK301 boom vang for boats up to 22'? I believe Dwyer makes our masts so it should fit. And the cost is right, $89 with all fittings. Check it out at:
http://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=50&cat1Name=Rigging&familyID=12&familyName=Boom+Vangs
Anyone have info on how you have added a boom vang to your CP16? Seems like a worthwhile upgrade.
Thanks,
idouglas
idouglas,
I don't have experience with that particular boom vang or with a CP16 but I have a boom vang on my CP23. I think its a Schaefer. It helps sailing downwind to keep the sail from riding up and helps some to flatten sail when sailing to windward.
Looks like it from a strength standpoint it would be fine for a CP16 and OK for a CP19 based on the description on Dwyer's web page.
In the web photo it looks like neither of the blocks has a cam cleat which would be a big negative. You should call Dwyer and confirm that before ordering. If no cam cleat its not a great deal. A number of people simply bought blocks themselves and saved relative to the Schaefer or Ronstan kits by not using quick release snap shackles on both ends. The blocks with cam cleat and the snap shackles are what drive up the cost of the kits.
If you decide to build your own, ;ook on the schaefer or ronstan web page at the small blocks with about 500-600 SWL. Pick out a single with becket and cam cleat and a single. Then get some line and a few sturdy padeyes and you have a boom vang. If you get blocks with snap shackles it will drive the cost up and the kits have that at a slight discout. Then call Defender industries (best prices on blocks that I've found) and order even if the part is not listed in the catalog. For Schaefer and Ronstan they probably will not tack on any special order fee since they regularly order from these guys. Defender will sell you anything Schaefer, Ronstan, or Harken makes even if it is not listed in their catalog. They also special order from other companies such as Ancor.
You can rivet the vang plate to the boom and the eyestrap to the mast base. It would be better to through bolt the padeye(s) if you can but it is hard to get an nyloc nut inside the boom. You can't do it without removing the gooseneck and the riveting it back on. I don't remember if I riveted or bolted to the boom but mine is holding so rivet is probably good enough.
Quote from: idouglas on December 09, 2007, 04:16:53 PM
It's getting cold and snowy here in MA so of course I'm thinking about next summer's upgrades for my 1994 CP16/III/XL!
Does anybody have any experience with the Dwyer DK301 boom vang for boats up to 22'? I believe Dwyer makes our masts so it should fit. And the cost is right, $89 with all fittings. Check it out at:
http://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=50&cat1Name=Rigging&familyID=12&familyName=Boom+Vangs
Anyone have info on how you have added a boom vang to your CP16? Seems like a worthwhile upgrade.
Thanks,
idouglas
btw - where in MA do you sail. Not much in your profile on that.
Curtis
Thanks Curtis.
Lots of good info to think about over the cold winter months. I appreciate all the advice.
We sail around Nantucket Sound and the Vineyard. We had an Irwin 27 for 15 years or so and traded down at the end of the summer of 2006. Moving down fit our family well, more sailing and less expense (the kids also picked up a Hobie 16 with the proceeds from the sale of the Irwin.) Two boats and more sailing for the price and work of one.
Thanks again,
idouglas
idouglas,
Quote from: idouglas on December 09, 2007, 10:23:10 PM
We sail around Nantucket Sound and the Vineyard.
We mostly just daysail in Pleasant Bay these days. Its been a few years since I've been to Nantucket and the Vineyard. I'll let you know next season if we have anything planned. Nantucket is too far for a day sail and now that I'm "unretired" its more difficult to take a few weeks off and sail on a whim.
Hope to see you out there some time.
Curtis
Curtis:
We mainly sail around the Elisabeth Islands, Woods Hole, Falmouth and the Vineyard. Nantucket is too far for a short hop.
Let me know next summer if you are heading our way.
idouglas
Quote from: idouglas on December 10, 2007, 10:15:31 AM
Curtis:
We mainly sail around the Elisabeth Islands, Woods Hole, Falmouth and the Vineyard. Nantucket is too far for a short hop.
Let me know next summer if you are heading our way.
idouglas
idouglas,
Will do.
I've wanted to visit Cuttyhunk Island. Vineyard Haven is a good two day sail for me with an overnight stop at Nantucket. Sounds like a good half way point. Last time I was there was in 2003 and this may not be a good year for me, but if I make it out there I'll let you know.
Curtis
ps - last visit to Vineyard Haven:
http://www.faster-light.net/remote-access/narrative-2003-08.html (http://www.faster-light.net/remote-access/narrative-2003-08.html)
|
(http://www.faster-light.net/remote-access/image/20030822-big-sail-14-160x160.jpg)
|
Curtis:
Great pictures and narrative. Thanks. Many familiar places.
Remote Access looks great. She gives me sevenfootitis. But having traded down from the Irwin 27, I think I'll continue to enjoy my CP16/III/XL.
idouglas
Curtis:
I followed your advice and checked out the ronstan blocks, including one with a cam cleat. I then went over to Defender to check prices as suggested.
Low and behold, Defender had a ready made vang for boats under 18ft with the same blocks by ronstan. And the best part was that Defender wants to clear them out, so the price is reduced from $52 to $38. Check it out at:
http://www.defender.com/product2.jsp?path=-1|118|319697|311639|2611|311629&id=2594
A better rig at a better price then when I began with Dwyer, thanks to your suggestions.
Now all I need is the mounting hardware.
Thanks for all the help.
idouglas
You'll need a bail for the boom (preferably through bolted) and for the base, I used a nice swivel that is actually the lower mount for the "heavy duty" boomkicker. I made the rest from West Marine parts... but I don't know how the price would compare.
Here are a couple of pics.
http://www.com-pacowners.com/gallery2/displayimage.php?album=49&pos=4
http://www.com-pacowners.com/gallery2/displayimage.php?album=49&pos=5
Went out this past week... GREAT! temps in the mid 50s and winds 15 - 18 out of the North... I love winter here! Enjoy...
Dale
Thanks Dale.
Most helpful. So by your pics, the block with cam cleat goes on the boom end of the vang. Does anyone ever mount it the other way around with the cam down by the mast foot?
Sure wish I was still sailing, but we have two feet of snow here in Massachusetts. At least it will be a white Christmas.
idouglas
One more question for anyone who has a boom vang?
How far out from the mast did you mount the bail?
Thanks
idouglas
Hi idouglas, The bail on the boom on my boat is is 18 inches from the end. When I got my boat the hardware was already on the mast step and boom, but no vang. I also bought the blocks at west marine (don't remember the cost but it seems like it was too much) but I have not had a chance to try it out. On the mast step there is a hoop it attaches to. Hope this helps. BILL
Thanks Bill: Most helpful.
Any chance you can post a picture of the hoop on the mast step? If you can not post it here, then can you send a picture to me at my email: idouglas@eds.edu? I'm thinking I might go the same way.
Thanks again.
idouglas
I placed the bail about 32" back from the gooseneck on my boom... there is a lot of force on it and you want to gain leverage and not put too much pressure on the boom.
Also... you want the lower end of the vang to hinge precisely with the gooseneck so it won't loosen or worse, tighten as it pivots.
Best to Y'all
Dale
Another question for anyone who can help? What is the exact width of the boom/mast on a CP 16? I need to buy a bail to mount my boom vang and I wonder if anyone can give me the needed dimensions. My boat is under wraps for the winter and at some distance from where I am at the moment.
Also, if anyone can give me the width of the tabernacle and the diameter of the holes on the tabernacle that would be most helpful too. I'm thinking of mounting a second bail with a roller shackle on the top of tabernacle using the existing holes in order to attached the forward mast-end of the vang. Any opinions on such a rig would also be welcome?
Thanks,
idouglas
Just under 2" wide... I measured 1 7/8" with the caliper...
(one of the advantages of having it right here in the garage)
All the Best... spring is great for sailing here... we're having fun.
Dale
Thanks Dale.
Wish I was on the open sea. Too cold and snowy here in Massachusetts.
idouglas
OK, I have what is probably a REALLY dumb question! But since I'm not an expert on anything, here she goes...
I wouldn't mind having a bit more control over the upward movement of the boom as well.
But I like the simplicity of the factory CP16 I rigging and freedom of movement in the cockpit. So I'm resisting the boom vang.
What do you all think about simply adding a series of removable weights to the boom? Perhaps 2 lbs every 2 feet (or thereabouts)? They would be flush with the boom so as to not hang down and risk head injury. For example, small canvas sacks with lead shot velcroed on or maybe lead strips which could be fastened temporarily with eyelets? Perhaps an extra 10-15 lbs holding the boom down, distributed over the lenght of the boom. Obviously it could still raise up in high breezes, but perhaps be a bit more controlled in most fair conditions. I know...sounds cheesy (and probably is!). What negatives would this setup create, besides not working in heavy weather?
Thoughts?
I'm not sure what you mean as far as interfering with "movement in the cockpit"... the vang doesn't extend into that area. The idea of weights may add to the healing angle when the boom is extended over the side... the further out, the more leverage... As far as simplicity... it attaches very quickly and simply to the boom and remains attached to the mast (held in storage by the same bungie that holds the halyards).
Also... in light air, you WANT the boom to lift in order to get some twist into the main... I use the Boom Kicker to help lift the boom to shape the main with upward force in light air while the vang provides downward force to flatten the main in heavier air. Either way, I wouldn't add weight to the boom... in addition to not preventing it from raising up in high wind... you may be creating a danger to the crew... if you get beaned with a light aluminum boom it hurts... add a lot of weight to that and you've created a weapon. just my humble opinion.
Best Regards
Dale
Good points, Dale. I agree with the weapon analogy. Although, I like your thinking outside the box, Saly16. Creative thinking is a great thing.
If you are terribly opposed to the vang, you might consider a boom preventer. A little different animal meant for a slightly different purpose. I think of it used in beam reach and running situations when you want to keep the boom low and prevent an accidental gibe. While a vang more efficient in beam reach to close hauled situations and can be used while tacking. There are pros and cons to using each, but each is good at controlling the boom and therefore sail shape for the specific sailing condition.
Thanks Dale and Paul. Perhaps I should scour the gallery for pics of the vang, kicker, and preventer. For some reason, I had the impresson it would extend into the cockpit more than you describe. My friend with a C22 has the vang and it's somewhat in the way of moving around for my tastes. (maybe he just mounted it incorrectly?) Also sounds like it's not an issue to rig.
As always, mucho appreciate the advice!
<back to watching the snow fall until spring gets here>
Hello everyone:
I decided that a boom kicker and vang would be a nice addition to my CP16 and make single sailing much easier and safer.
Taking some suggestions in this thread, I purchased the Dwyer DK 301 vang for 16-19 foot boats. It looks good and much cheaper at 94.00 shipped than some I have seen in the boat stores. It is a complete kit with stainless attachments for both ends. I did find two vang blocks on a discount shelf which would have allowed a cheaper production, but stayed with the dwyer with the swagged wire, attachment key and connection and braided attached line.
I ordered a new boomkicker K0400 for 16 to 19 foot boats from Kelly-Hanson Marine (a small ebay store) via ebay. The 125.00 price was the cheapest I have seen for that model. I believe the smaller one (14'-16') would have worked, but I opted for the next model. There was also no shipping charge.
Hoping all this works out and I never have to pull the mainsl out of the drink again or jump over the boom.
Thanks for the ideas,
Tom M.
You will really like the Boom Kicker, I had one on my previous boat, a small Hunter 170.
The boom kicker really helps to shape your sail and when you want to drop your sail, the boom doesn't come down on your head !
I thinking about adding one to my Eclipse..........
Glenn
Hi,
I have been reading and following this thread on CP 16 boom vangs. I really, really like the idea of using a through bolted boom bail and the boomkicker swivel on the mast. The problem I am running into is that I do not know which model of boomkicker has the swivel that fits our CP 16 mast track ???? They make 5 or 6 different models of boomkickers.
Also I tried Defender to get just the lower end swivel bracket and they said that they don't sell individual parts just the complete kit for a boomkicker... help
Anyone know of the size and source for a boomkicker bottom swivel bracket?
Thanks for the assist.
Soon to be on the water here in Wisconsin...the snow has stopped. Knock on wood. hahaha
Happy Sailing
Doug and Linda, CP 16, Hull 1994,. Summer Escape
Doug
The boomkicker model I referred to a couple of messages ago has the perfect mast fitting connection (Model K0400)(you are referring to as swivel) for the CP-16 mast. I just installed it on my CP-16 today along with the vang also previously mentioned. This boomkicker comes with two installed fiberglass rods and two additional fiberglass rods if you want a lighter system. On my boat it appeared that I was running out of mast to make the installation with the mainsl in the proper position which means I have less of an angle than I would like for the boomkicker. However with the stronger glass rods the kicker has no problem holding up the boom. This is a nice kit with good looking components especially the part you referenced.
Tom
Tom,
Thanks for the model info. Yes, it is the mast fitting that I keep calling a "swivel". Sorry bout that.
I did manage to find a source for the fitting and it should be on its way to me shortly.
Thanks again for the info, can't wait to get my SUMMER ESCAPE back in the water and sailing again after what seems like a long, long Winter.
Doug
FYI
For the boomkicker fitting go to boomkicker.com and go to boomkicker pricelist and click on item not found then put in model 0400 and mast fitting, do not call it a swivel or you will only get part of it.
Cost will be around $30.00 plus shipping.
doug 142
Summer Escape
and sailing soon