Suncat as a Power Displacement Cruiser?

[cruz-in]

Hi Team,

Well my Suncat did not sell for the low (IMHO crazy low) price of $7500. I was selling because of an interest in a small displacement cruising boat. Something like a ranger R21EC. You can see one at:

www.rangertugs.com

so I have got to thinking about using my suncat as a sorta power displacement cruiser. Albeit one that can also sail. I now have a 4HP 2 Stroke Merc. A really great, very light weight engine. The merc works great for getting from dock to sailing grounds and back. Howevver, does not suit itself well to longterm use as a power source for power cruising.

So I have been looking at replacing it with a Tohatsu Sail Pro 6 HP. This outboard comes with either a 20 or 25 inch shaft, prop better suited to pushing a displacement hull, exernal tank, and alternator for charging. Weighs in at about 60 pounds. Only drawback seems to be it is a single cylinder.  I have read reviews on the single cylinder 4 strokes and one complaint is vibration of the single cylinder.  This concerns me as I wold run it for hours at a time. Looking for as smooth and quiet displacement speed power I can get.

I would go to a 2 cylinder 8 hp, however at 85 pounds, that seems like way too much to hang off the back of a suncat.

I would love to hear your comments, inputs and thoughts.

Thanks
Dan

[Potcake boy]

I used the 6hp motor you referred to on a different boat, and yes it was noisy and vibrated a lot, although performance was satisfactory. Tohatsu builds the small outboards for most outboard motor companies so if you buy a Mercury or Nissan you are probably getting the same thing. It's easy enough to identify them as they have the same appearance except the name badge, and some a a different color to correspond with the trade mark of the company. I use a 4hp Yamaha on my Suncat, and the difference is remarkable. the Yamaha is quiet and smooth compared to the Tohatsu, and has an external tank as well as internal. It starts easily and runs consistently. I don't have personal experience with them, but from what I've seen Suzuki also make a very nice outboard. If you plan to do cruising (that is making trips with a specific destination) you will be doing a lot of motoring, unless you are a member of the Joshua Slocum society, which would solve the outboard issue all together.

If you still wish to sell your Suncat, be patient there is a pretty steady demand for these unique boats. Putting a new motor on her certainly won't hurt your resale. I am not familiar with your situation, but if you don't have a trailer that would be a deterrent to a potential buyer.

[Craig]

I had the Sailpro 6 on my Suncat and didn't think it vibrated that much and was reasonably quiet. Finding the vibration nodes rpm and adjusting rpm to for the least vibration helps. I do that with the diesel on Kailani if motoring any distance.

[cruz-in]

Interesting, I wonder if there is a model year difference on the SailPro 6s. Seems from reading reviews the newer ones (last 2 or 3 years) do not have the same vibration concerns the older ones do.

Possible there was a redesign in the last few years?

[Tom L.]

On Gatito (a Sun Cat) we have a 5hp Nissan 4 stroke. It will move the boat at hull speed at about half throttle. 4 stroke engines seem to have a lot more low end power. JMO. I think you would be wasting your money to add a 6 HP motor. It is a good choice if you didn't already have a good motor,  the motor you have should be good enough. Our Sun Cats will never be the equivelant of a Ranger Tug, not even close no mater what engine you install. The four should move your boat to hull speed. The only advantage of a larger motor would be in really nasty wind and wave conditions. The sailpro would give you enough residual power to drive through those conditions. But I am sure it would be very wet and uncomfortable. Better to watch the weather and hole up on a day that is marginal for the Sun Cat.

Be sure and list your boat on other sites. This site really has limited exposure. forsalebyowner.com  and the Texas site would be good additions.

Good luck selling your boat it will sell.

Tom L.

[Salty19]

You didn't list your contact info in the ad here on the forum. That means only forum members will be able to contact you about the classified ad.

[cruz-in]

Thanks all. probably should not have mentioned the sale of the boat and Ranger Tug in this thread. Maybe a better way to sate my question is:


Background: Own a ComPac Suncat with 4 Hp 2 Stroke Merc. w/No  external tank connection.

Desire: I would liike to equip our suncat for, in addition to sailing, being used to motor more than just out to raise sails  and back.Range of up to 20 miles is desired. I would ike to do this with as little noise and vibration as reasonable.

Current situation: It appears that 2 Stroke outbaards, in good condition, are in demand. I have the opportunity to sell our current outbards for a very good price.

Question: So if I were to sell the current outboard, given our desire to motor for longer periods (like 15 to 20 miles), I would be interested in folks input on the applicability of the Tohotsu 6 HP SailPro. Please note the Tohotsu 6 sailpro wieghs the same as the Tohotsu/Nissan/Merc 5 HP.

Sorry for the poorly written original post. Hopefully this makes more sense now.

Thanks
Dan

[Mike K]

I agree the 6 HP may be a little overkill. By the way, Tohatsu's really haven't been redesigned in the last 4 years or so. Also, the Tohatsu 4,5 and 6 HP 4 strokes are all exactly the same except for carburetor size. You can buy carb kits to get more HP.

I have a 2013 Tohatsu 4hp, and yes it vibrates some, maybe a little more than my Honda 5 HP (nice motor by the way)

One BIG thing you may want to consider is that the Tohatsu's (and Nissans, Mercurys) do NOT have an adequate steering lock. If you try to lock it in the straight ahead position to motor and steer with the rudder, it moves off center after a minute or two. More tightness in the screw can bust it and doesn't help anyway. . This is a common problem many people have. Annoying for getting to/from the dock, but maybe a deal breaker for your extended motoring needs.

[kickingbug1]

    i have to say that my merc 4 stroke 4 hp runs ok so far. it was on the boat when i bought it. four strokes have a large number of moving parts. far more than any two stroke. so they vibrate more. at least the single cylinder ones like mine. and yes, they have the poorest engineered steering lock in history. i would be embarrassed if i would have designed this thing. if i had my drothers i would get rid of the 4 stoke merc and find a good 2 stoke. on my fishing boat i has a 40 hp 2 cyl 2 stoke. it was an 87 model and was used a lot (heck of a lot) with very little attention. it was smooth and extremely reliable. shame you cant buy a new two stroke anymore. thanks government

[mikew]

Dan, I run a 4 hp 4 cyl Yamaha ob (48 lbs) on my cp-16. It will run the boat at hull speed at about 1/4 throttle. It does vibrate a little but not a problem, has F/N/R gears and internal and external tanks.
Now the newer 4 hp Yamahas have the same block as the 6 hp and weight in at 60 lbs. Maybe as others have said stay with 4 - 5 hp and check the weight specs.
I too like to run my boat as a power cruiser because I have some good boating waters nearby consisting of rivers and the Erie Canal. Have you thought of using a Bimini / Dodger, hardtop/
Pilot house mod to the boat when motoring in bad weather like the Ranger might have ?
Mike

[Shawn]

"Range of up to 20 miles is desired. I would ike to do this with as little noise and vibration as reasonable. "

20 miles would be easy with a Sailpro and the 3 gallon tank. At full throttle I think it is rated to burn 1/2 gallon an hour.  On my old 23 I think I burned about 1/4 of a gallon an hour at cruising RPM which was good for about 4 knots. In theory I could go about 48 miles on a tank, I never tested that but I typically only used less than one tank a season.

On a Suzuki 9.9B I motored for about 2.5 hours (about 12 miles) and used a little over a gallon and that was pushing a 8000 pound boat.

"Please note the Tohotsu 6 sailpro wieghs the same as the Tohotsu/Nissan/Merc 5 HP. "

They are all the same basic engine. I would recommend going with the 6hp Sailpro version though as it will come with the proper high thrust prop and charging system standard. That would be extra on the 4 or 5HP versions and I don't know if you can get the 25" shaft on the 4/5hp models. Having the extra reach (even if you normally don't use it) could be handy in bad waves to keep the prop in the water. People with 28 and 30' boats use the Sailpro as an auxiliary so the Suncat would be easy for it.

As others mention the Tohatsu does not have a steering lock, just a steering tension setting that Tohatsu explicitly says will not lock the steering. You would need some way of locking the steering ahead for long distance cruising with it.

Shawn

[cruz-in]

Dan, I run a 4 hp 4 cyl Yamaha ob (48 lbs) on my cp-16. It will run the boat at hull speed at about 1/4 throttle. It does vibrate a little but not a problem, has F/N/R gears and internal and external tanks.
Now the newer 4 hp Yamahas have the same block as the 6 hp and weight in at 60 lbs. Maybe as others have said stay with 4 - 5 hp and check the weight specs.
I too like to run my boat as a power cruiser because I have some good boating waters nearby consisting of rivers and the Erie Canal. Have you thought of using a Bimini / Dodger, hardtop/
Pilot house mod to the boat when motoring in bad weather like the Ranger might have ?
Mike

I had one of those 4 HP 4 Stroke Yamahas on an ole peep hen I used to own. Hands down the nicest motor I have had the pleasure of using.

[cruz-in]

I have also given thought to a dodger/bimini setup. Had one on our previous boat (a peep hen) and really enjoyed it.

Please seel the link I posted on the 5 hp outboard comparison.....they liked the Yamaha best followed by the Suzuki over the honda, tohatsu, and LEHR.

[Shawn]

The outboard test is interesting as far as fuel capacity and weight and such but I wouldn't put a whole lot into more than that. On another boat the speed/acceleration results could be different. Those engines have a variety of different props on them (for example the Honda's is 7.5x7.5 while Suzuki is 7.5x6.5) so acceleration/speed will be based around which prop is best suited to the boat they tested it on. This would also impact the noise/vibration/harshness impressions of the engines as there was no RPMs recorded during the test. With those differences in props one engine might be not be able to get to its peak RPM (and therefor not make full power) while another can due to differences in prop pitch. That will change the SPL of the engine as well as the harshness impressions of the engine. An engine that can't get to full RPM is essentially lugging and will feel/sound different from another getting to peak RPM.

You can see this in action by looking at a number of different forums threads about the Tohatsu 6hp engine on displacement hulls. Those without the Saildrive prop are very unimpressed with the 6hp as it is 'geared' wrong for the boat. Engine can't get to peak power and is struggling to push the boat. With the prop Sailpro high thrust prop that engine does much better on a displacement hull.

Added: Found one huge thread that gets into this some...
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/outboard/36963-nissan-tohatsu-6h-4-stroke.html

Shawn

[Bob23]

Dan, you had a Peep Hen? Any photos???
Bob23- the thread thief!