Winter storage?

[alsantini]

This has been a different year for me.  Normally (or at least last year), I pulled Off The Wind out of Pistakee Lake in October, cleaned her up, dumped water and fuel, stripped the deck of just about everything and towed her to Nokomis Florida for the winter.  Winter storage was in 70 degree Florida.  Only concern was the intense sun.  Well this year, due to Mother-In-Law illness, we are still here in sunny? Illinois with 22 degrees outside and 8 inches of snow on the ground.  Last week I had the boat shrink wrapped and it is in outside storage.  We are still hopeful that we will make it to Florida after Christmas but not confident that I wanted to risk winter damage.  Prior to shrink wrapping, I pulled the sails, cushions, pfd's etc and stored them inside.  I left the batteries on board.   My previous boat, a Precision 21 was stored inside at the Fair Grounds in a concrete floor building.  $10 a foot; so for $250 I had 6 months of inside storage which was perfect.  When I sold the boat after 13 years it looked almost exactly like it did when I bought it.  Inside storage was great, but did not fill the bill this year.  So, what do the rest of you northern folks do to protect your investment during the winter?

[crazycarl]

i planned on putting miss adventures indoors at the end of october, but work ,vehicle issues, and readying the house for winter has her still in the drive under the snow.

the temps are expected to be back in the 50s by weeks end and if i'm not working, she'll be inside.

all the exterior teak has been removed and is in the shop being refinished.

C.C.

[kickingbug1]

   although my boat gets to sit a garage when not on the water i still have some concerns. mainly the battery. i was always told to take it out and put in in a cool dry place (basement) and have it either setting on a rubber mat or a piece of plywood. has anyone here ever heard of that?

[Bob23]

Yes. I've heard of keeping it off the concrete by putting it on a piece of wood. I also had an old timer tell my he puts salt in his battery and it would be fully charged in the spring. He called it A salt in battery!!! Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

[brackish]

Winter storage?

[crazycarl]

kick,

there's no validity to the issue of leaving a battery on concrete.

not only did i read it somewhere, but i've been storing wet cell batteries on my basement floor for years.

the boat's current batteries are 5 years old and hold a charge as if new.  the typical motorcycle battery lasts 2 years, mine lasted 18.

always stored on a concrete floor and hooked up to an automatic charger.

C.C.

[nies]

I heard years ago that storing on concrete would drain the battery  and for thirty years have keep my batteries on a piece of wood. Well true or not a piece of wood under the battery can not hurt anything and cost nothingl, to old to change..........nies

[alsantini]

Battery storage always brings about lots of tales.  I have done some research on it for a text book that I have authored.  !st batteries on concrete will discharge.  Totally false.  The hard plastic of the bottom of the battery will prevent those pesky electrons from seeking a better life in the concrete.  2. Better to store a battery where it will remain cold.  Totally true.  The activity rate or self-discharge rate of a battery at 70 degrees against one at 32 degrees is 90% greater.  The military will sometimes store their unused batteries in a deep freeze.  3. A battery will freeze at 0 Degrees.  Totally false.  A fully charged battery will not freeze until -75 F.  BUT a discharged battery will freeze at 22 F.  So keep em charged or at least put them in storage fully charged.  4. Trickle charge a battery (less than 1 amp) improves its life.  Totally true but only maybe.  Normal lead acid batteries like to be kept fully charged and welcome a slight charge.  AGM (absorbed gas mat) batteries last longer by cycle charging.  Cycle charging is a charge that will turn on and then off when fully charged.  Only really expensive chargers will totally turn off however you can make one by using a trickle charger on a timer that give 2.5 hours every 24 hours.  By the way maintenance chargers are trickle chargers and you get what you pay for.  Cheap ones will typically overcharge batteries if left on all winter.  Good ones will not ruin the battery.  If you have AGM batteries it is not recommended to continuously charge them since they have no acid volume.  Even slightly overcharging them can ruin them almost immediately and they are really expensive.  Our use of current on the typical sailboat of Eclipse size means there is not a lot of current drawing devices on board.  So, an AGM battery is probably overkill.  A decent deep cycle battery will last easily double the warranty if it is kept charged.  I use a solar panel on board that trickle charges.  When I do not take the boat to Florida for the winter, I used to remove the battery, put it near an outlet in the cold garage, fully charge it in November, and then maybe once during the winter.  The last battery that I replaced on my P-21 was 8 years old and would not hold a charge.  Of course the PO on my Eclipse or the PPO installed or had installed the two battery option with an internal charger.  Excellent quality charger that Com Pac uses.  It turns off when fully charged but with no power at my slip, the solar panel does the trick.  I have one new and one old battery on board which brings me to 5. Batteries that are connected together (in parallel) allows the weaker battery to pull the stronger one down.  Totally true.  If you have a 1. 2. Both or off switch - do not use the "both" position.  Use the 1 or 2 since this will isolate the batteries from one another.  The charge should be connected across both batteries and "should" charge both no matter what the switch position is - this only applies to good chargers that are wired correctly.
BTW I fully charged both my batteries, switched to off  disconnected both grounds and shrink wrapped the boat.  I am still hopeful that I will make it to Florida so I took a chance leaving the batteries in the boat.  If the boat sits in the yard all winter it would have been better for the batteries to be in the garage where they could be charged.
Sorry to be so long winded....  Your results may vary....

[Bob23]

This is quite a battery of information. I'm really getting a charge out of it!

[Vectordirector]

Shocking!  I was always under the impression that batteries hated cold.  I understand it slows the electrons but isn't that bad?  Try to start your car when it is below zero and has sat at O'hare for two weeks and let me know what you think about it.  My personal experience differs from what you have said, is it because the engine is harder to turn over with thick fluids?  Can you explain this like I'm 5?  Why are batteries rated at cold cranking amps?  Does battery chemistry make a difference?  Lead acid/agm/Li/Ni?  Please educate this novice. 

Seriously, I feel very uneducated.

Enjoy your Turkey Day.  Go Bears!

Bryan aka
Vectordirector

[alsantini]

You are actually talking about two different battery conditions.  The ability of the battery to deliver lots of amps to the starter to turn an engine over fast enough to start is obviously a concern.  Batteries are not as efficient at lower temps and that is the reason cars do not like to start when cold.  However this same inefficiency is the reason that we should store them cold.  As the temps drop the self discharge also goes down.  All batteries will self discharge - that is run themselves down over time and the higher the temperature the more discharge will occur.  In addition, batteries do not like being in a discharged state.  So, the worst thing possible is to run the battery down and then leave it discharged in warm temps (like Florida....).
A standard battery is composed of lead and acid.  As the battery discharges and charges it produces hydrogen and oxygen which is replaced by adding water to the battery.   As the battery ages it will produce the 2 gasses at lower output and charge rates because the battery is aging and sulfating.  Sealed batteries just have a sufficient storage of excess acid to carry the battery through the warranty.  All AGM batteries are completely sealed and do not have the "extra" acid to allow gassing.  The acid is absorbed into a mat that is between the plates of the battery.  They will not stand to be over charged since as the battery gasses the mat dries out and the capacity of the battery goes down.  In theory an AGM battery under normal charge discharge cycles does not produce more gas than can be internally absorbed.  All batteries will gas once they are fully charged and continued to be charged.  Our goal should be to get the battery charged as soon as practical after discharge and then maintain the full charge state BUT not to over charge especially the AGM style.  Makes sense?

[Bob23]

Easy, Vec. Now pay attention:
  When the battery is cold, the little electrons take a little nap the length of which is determined by the temperature. The colder it is, the deeper they sleep. When you come along and try to start your cold car, they take it very personally and refuse to wake up. I mean, how would you feel if someone tried to waken you out of a deep sleep? So, instead of rudely trying to start your car, first try this: Open the hood, and looking at your battery, say something like this: "Well, hello there battery. First I must apologize for waking you and I thought we should talk about it first. I need to start the car so if it's ok, and no rush at all, can you help me out a bit by waking up all your electron buddies and turn over the starter when I give the signal? I promise that if you do, you'll be warm in no time".

  That's how it works, Vec.

[Vectordirector]

Ok.  I get it.  No more Chicago winters for me anyway. 

Stay warm everybody.  Except for your batteries!

vectordirector

[crazycarl]

so, alsantini, let me get this straight.

i've been lugging 3 - group 27 batteries out of the boats, down the ladder, across the driveway, through the garage, into the kitchen, down the stairs, past the workout room, through the wood shop, and into the far corner of the utility room for the past 10 years and NOW YOU TELL ME IT'S BETTER TO LEAVE THEM IN THE GARAGE!?

your sense of humor is worse than bobs!

but in all seriousness, this makes sense as i've often wondered why stored batteries would freeze, yet the battery in my car can sit for days at a time and not "freeze and crack".

looks like i'll be carrying 3 - group 27 batteries from the far corner of the utility room, into the wood shop, through the workout room, up the stairs, into the kitchen, and back into the garage.

i'm exhausted just thinking of it.

C.C.

[Vectordirector]

Sounds like excellent exercise Carl.  No wonder my battery never wound up in the basement.  I really told myself I was going to move it from the garage, just well, never got motivated enough.  I have learned that basements are great for things like tornados, but really suck as storage areas because you realize that everything you lugged down there will have to come back up at some point. 

Vec