Thoughts on solar installs on 23's.

[Shawn]

"is your 23 a Diesel?"

Serenity had a sailpro outboard.

Here is the Dometic under the companionway.



Don't know how far back the diesel is but to fit the Dometic you would need about a foot of depth with about 17" of height. If it does fit I'd suggest adding something to assure it can't slide backwards into your pulleys/belt.

Not sure how well you could fit one of these under the V berth ahead of the head. There isn't all that much depth there. There *might* be enough height to put one inside the V berth right ahead of the bulkhead running fore/aft but I'd think that is tight too. You would also need to enlarge the access panel in the V berth to fit it in. You would also likely want to add some vents in there to let out the heat/humidity that the fridge creates.

Shawn

[Mas]

Thanx Shawn,

No Mas is a diesel. there would be no concern about hitting any engine pulleys or the like as the engine compartment has insulated access panels on both sides (of off quarter berths) and under the companion-way steps. I will measure next time down there but know the engine compartment clearly starts after the teak and holly sole ends. There is still the storage compartment that is above your dometic but not sure how much the depth there has been affected by the engine. That would be a great place for it, though you would have to lift the step panel every time.

I seem to remember there being about 18 inches in height from cabin sole to bottom of v-berth removable cushion. that would be a convenient for galley work location but in the way of most anything else involving the v-berth or head. (like to have the first cushion removed most the time for a convenient place to sit as well under the hatch) The fridge would ruin that option.

Have you been happy with the dometic?

[Mas]

also forgot to ask about 50% storm jib. This a separate jib or just a roller reefed jib down to the 50% amount?

No Mas is set up to be a cutter rigged boat and actually came with two almost brand new hank-on staysails. Guess it was not used much as a cutter rig. Sloop certainly is simpler, no walking the jib through a slot, especially with roller reefing. The staysail, stay is more aft of the jib stay and thus would possibly balance better in a blow, but this is only speculation!

Gets pretty exciting when the wind gets that brisk doesn't it?!

[HeaveToo]

I carry a 150 and a 110.  I have furling but a 150 furled down past about 130 isn't that efficient. 

When the wind is brisk, and I know that it will be, I put the 110 up.  This is a great heavy wind sail and it is easier to shorten sail with it.  It is probably efficient to about 90 percent. 

Having a cutter rig with a detachable forestay would be nice.  Most of the time the forestay is not hooked up but if you think a blow is coming you attach it and hank on the storm sail. 

I only have a single reef.  I want a second one and may have one added.

As far as balancing the boat out, a partly rolled 110 and a single reef held fine tight to the wind in 20-25 knots.  That wasn't bad.  What I speak of is the Chesapeake Bay waves that are very short and steep.  They can get huge too.  If the waves counter the current it is just plain ugly.  On my Catalina 30 I had a few waves break on the cabin roof by the mast.  It was where the Chesapeake Bay meets the Potomac River.  Very scary stuff so I have a lot of respect for that area. 

Eventually I want to see how she handles these waves but I think that she will be fine.  Still, I have a lot of respect for her.

[Mas]

The Chesapeake is basically a drowned (and still drowning) river system. I used to whitewater paddle much and the dynamics of a river bottom and its banks set up interesting types of waves. That with it's immense watershed of river's current flowing in and an interesting bottom with plenty of fetch and you have, as you have so accurately pointed out, some pretty crazy water. Our 16 was never in such conditions as far as the wave action, though ever bit as high as 3-4ft. on occasion. Too a few times for me to go "oh". She pitched a lot but interestingly didn't pound very much. Just luck I guess. Was, solo on that but finally with motor. (when it would stay in the water)

Well the original intent was solar and this is a good time to put out the question of best way for solar to survive some nasty weather. The group knowledge here is such an asset to us all. Learning so much.

[Shawn]

"I will measure next time down there but know the engine compartment clearly starts after the teak and holly sole ends."

As long as that isn't different from non diesels you should have the depth then. The storage box on non diesels fits up against the end of the sole. Be sure to check your width and height too as Compac has changed them numerous times. Serenity was a '92.

My mistake, I thought you were putting the Dometic under the V berth. Didn't realize you meant on top of it. If you do that don't let it sit on the cushions, at least not long term. I had mine on a seat in the Sabre (perfect place tucked on the bulkhead held in place by the folding cabinet) but the humidity it puts out started some mold growing on the cushion it was sitting on over time.

Very happy with the Dometic. It works well and has some nice battery saving features.

"This a separate jib or just a roller reefed jib down to the 50% amount?"

Serenity was all hanked on jibs. I had the 50-60% storm jib (an actual heavy weight storm jib I bought at a consignment shop), a 110, 130 and a 170% drifter.

"Gets pretty exciting when the wind gets that brisk doesn't it?!"

Only with too much sail up. My first season on the 23 I just had the 110 and a blown out main with a single reef point. In that much wind the boat was a handful. Getting the storm jib and a new main with two reef points was a revelation in similar wind conditions. It really was simple to handle. I even took it out a few times with just the storm jib up. I could hand hold the jib sheets and I was still doing 4-5 knots off wind.

Shawn

[Mas]

Hey Shawn, clearly i am not doing a very good job of indicating the v-berth location. We have a marine head, so think on the cabin floor aft of the head, (I think I said in front of the head, which was thinking in reference to being on the head!) The v-berth I assume has the same divisions on all of the 23's so we are talking about under the most aft of the middle removable cushions, the head being under the forward most of the two removable middle cushions. It would be in the way for the head and also precludes having that cushion removed and having comfortable seating with room for heads under the forward hatch.

Lets face it, they are small boats, but fun to figure out how to make em work.

thanx again.

[Mas]

Gunna try to steer back to the solar

I have had such good advice but guess the next step is either bring home the batteries or at least set up a trickle charge for while it is under cover. Just don't wish to compromise a final solution for the sailing solar needs or spend monies that have to be abandoned when the sailing season pane/controlerl set up is installed. HeaveToo, i know you have a trickle panel. Can you get one that simply plugs into a 12v. lighter outlet in cockpit? Add the solar controller and larger panel later and still use the trickle charger? I know this might be possible and safe with such a low watt pane,l 5wattish.

[HeaveToo]

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/renogy-100w-flex-panels.175809/

Take a look at that post.  There was another one floating around there about the flexible panels causing fires.  Search it on that forum as well. 

Scary part is that it is about the exact panel that the post is about.  It sounds like they will come out with a new panel in 2016 and I will probably try the exchange it since they seem to be doing that.

[Shawn]

That is scary, glad I have the rigid Renogy.

http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Solar/dp/B009Z6CW7O/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1447290787&sr=8-3&keywords=renogy+100w

Build quality on it is very nice and it has been working fine for 2 years now. It is also 36 cells, some others are only 32 cells. That can make a difference in partial shading conditions.

Shawn

[HeaveToo]

Do you have pictures of your solar mount with the rigid panel?

[Shawn]

A picture of Serenity's panel install is on the first page. With the Sabre I didn't have to worry about access to an outboard so I built a mount off the rear of the boat.

I bolted two pieces of aluminum bar stock across the bottom of the panel and then bolted a pair of Magma Dual Extended Horizontal Rail mounts to the bar stock. I put several sets of holes in the bar stock so I could adjust how far out the panel hangs out the back. These pictures are with the panel in close to balance it better over the rail. It is still very out of the way like this. By changing holes I can have the forwarded edge of the panel flush with the rail so that it is totally hanging out the back.




The Magma mounts can pivot which deals with the curve in the rail. If I wanted to add a second panel I could move this to have one mount on the rear of the rail and the second on the side rail and then put another panel on the other side. Haven't had the need though.

Shawn

[Mas]

yikes, looks like gunna be tougher than first thought. Am prepared to do without something else to get panels and controllers of unquestionable quality. Still same question though is, what can be a short term, over winter solution other than taking batteries out, that can remain the winter solution as I pursue a sailing season solution. (say that fast three times!) Nice install on the 40w panel.

OBTW Shawn, you got a heater on her? Noticed the stainless exhaust on starboard cabin roof.

[HeaveToo]

No Mas...You may look at a rigid 5 watt panel that you can plug into the batteries as a trickle charger.  That will maintain the batteries for the winter. 

According to what I hear, Renology will come out with a new panel in 2016,  You could wait for them to come out.

Again, if you can afford it, a Soloban panel is the way to go.  I just can't see spending the $1000 on a 100 watt unit.

As for my panel, it sits in the cabin most of the time.  I will keep it until I see what Renology does.  If they offer to replace it with a new one I will do that.  If not I will keep it and keep using like I have.  There have been thousands of panels that work okay so, for a short term solution, that will be fine.  Maybe in a few years I will break down and buy a Soloban unit.

[HeaveToo]

Then again, I wonder how much it would cost to have someone fabricate a new stainless bimini frame and put a spot on it for a rigid panel.  I would fix the bimini permanently with a rigid panel and leave it for the season if it wasn't too bad.  I am sure that the frame will cost over $1000.

There isn't a problem on a boat that money can't fix.  That sucks when you are on a budget!