Bilge water!

[Peter Dubé]

I looked down into the bilge yesterday with a flashlight and did see they there was water there. In using the bilge pump, I do not see any water coming out a scupper. I don't know if the pump does not work or if the pump does not remove all the water. I do not see any water anywhere else in the boat.

I have searched the archives, and see where the drains and the center board raising assembly could be the sources of the water. Is this correct? What is the proper way to fix these areas?

Should the bilge be bone dry?. Is this something to worry about?

All ideas and suggestions appreciated.

[capt_nemo]

My bilge stayed DRY for the 5 1/2 years that I owned "Frisky", a 2010 Sun Cat. I did keep the boat covered at all times when not in use.

Don't panic yet.

First, there may not be a lot of water in the bilge if only looking at illuminated "shiney" water surface. If you can get your hand or something else down in there to measure it would help. Even so, a build-up could have taken place over a period of time. Completely dry out the bilge, sail the boat, and expose it to some weather while frequently checking for water to help determine the cause.

Second, although the bilge pump isn't sucking up and discharging water it doesn't necessarily mean that it is broken. Those bilge pumps do not evacuate ALL the water when operating correctly. If there is a significant amount of water in the bilge the pump may indeed be broken.

Since access to my bilge was far less than satisfactory, one of the first mods I made to my Sun Cat was to enlarge the opening to the bilge FOR PROPER INSPECTION AND FULL ACCESS.

I've included a few photos to illustrate the process.

capt_nemo

BEFORE



DURING



AFTER

[Peter Dubé]

Hi Captain!

THANKS for getting me out of panic mode!. I'll take it step by step and try to find the cause of the water.

My pendant does squirt a bit of water. I think I'll take off the cover and check the seals.

Peter

[Catawampus]

I had water in the bilge and in the cabin floor on our third sail. I called Gerry at the factory and he suggested that I check the seals around the cockpit drains at the stern. Sure enough, that was the problem. After I repaired those, my cabin floor and bilge have been completely dry.

[Peter Dubé]

This is the amount of water that I have. It does not show I the cabin.

k hi

[capt_nemo]

Glad you've taken a deep breath Peter, and are approaching the problem methodically.

That looks like a few inches of water in the bilge, which the manual lever operated bilge pump should evacuate.

Is there an INTAKE hose going down into the bilge from the pump? An EXHAUST hose from the pump to the thru hull fitting?

If pump hoses are properly connected, and pick-up (intake) hose is there lying in several inches of water and not pumping, recommend removing pump and checking it out thoroughly. The rubber bellows and valves may be stuck, torn, dry rotted, or otherwise not functioning properly. Fortunately most pumps have rebuild kits to address such problems.

Remember, it takes several good strokes to prime that pump and get it working depending on mounting height above the bilge. (I've had them on both small and large sailboats.)

Also, check the seals around cockpit drains at the stern as Catawampus points out. (Several Owners have reported leaks there over the years.)

capt_nemo

[Tom Ray]

Yep, when mine leaked it was where the port side cockpit drain goes through the transom. The centerboard tube is another popular spot but I was able to eliminate that possibility because there was dust. I re-sealed the centerboard tube and all cockpit drains out of an abundance of caution but I'm sure only one was really leaking.

Your pump should remove most of that water. As Nemo says, it takes several strokes before it starts coming out but the sound and feel of the pump should tell you whether you're moving water. Depending on the position of the intake hose, the pump should leave less than an inch in the bilge. I got that remaining water out with a towel. Cranked the nose of the trailer way up and tossed it down there through a cockpit locker. Wring out, repeat until it comes up dry.

Another possibility: that water didn't come up through the hull, it came down from the sky. If the mast is folded and left uncovered, you have a mast-sized rain collection hole and the water will make its way to the bilge. Tasting it is one way to tell. If you're like me and don't want to taste bilge water, a hydrometer will tell you whether it's fresh or salt.

[Peter Dubé]

Scupper repair. When I had the boat in the driveway for cleaning, I did start to disassemble one of the scupper. I removed the screws that fasten the white cover on. That's as far as I got as the cover seemed to be very stuck on. Being unfamiliar with the scupper I did not want to break any thing. What is the proper procedure for repairing the scupper?. Best way to get that cover off without breaking it?. Are there parts that I will need besides marine sealant?

Oh, I'm pretty sure now the pump is not working. I have really cranked on it for some time with no water, or change in feel or sound. I will check that the pickup hose is properly placed first. If not, I'll remove and repair the pump. I love the boat and these boat fixing tasks!!

Peter

[Catawampus]

I too was unable to remove the covers at the stern, but i determined that the leak was beyond the covers where the pvc tubes meet the inside wall of the transom. Using a small wooden dowel as an applicator I worked sealant into those gaps while holding the black rubber flaps up with my other hand. I cannot remember now which sealant product I used (it was 3.5 years ago).
Inspecting these is part of my regular pre-launch routine. I also check the bolts that hold the rudder mounting plate to the transom with a wrench. These were loose when we got the boat too. I paid a teenager to get into one of the cockpit lockers with a monkey wrench and hold the nuts inside the transom while I tightened the bolts from the outside.

[Tom L.]

Peter I have the same problems with my 01 Sun Cat. First order of business was to get a rebuild kit for the bilge pump. That took care of that issue.

I also had the transomplate that secures the rudder come loose. Last month in some really choppy following seas with 20 mph winds it started moving around. I didn't like that the bolts through that plate were so close together, plus the movement wallowed out the holes in the transom. To get to that area I removed the shell that the tiller passes through. I drilled out the existing 4 holes for 3/8" bolts (original were 1/4"). I drilled four more holes at the corners of the mounting plate as high and low as I could. Because of the lugs that have the pivot bolt for the rudder there was only room for 1/4" bolts in the corners. Finally I had (2) 3/8" x 2"x 10" long vertical aluminum packing plates. I think that it is secure now.

I haven't found the leaks but I still get too much water from somewhere. Not rain water, I repaired all those leaks, but somewhere from either the CB trunk or those impossible to see transom drains. I will work on those issues in the off season next summer.

Tom L.

[Tom L.]

Steve so as I understand you sealed the cockpit drain pipes from the outside. Is that correct?

Tom L.

[Peter Dubé]

I worked on the bilge water this morning. The pick up tube was positioned correctly but the pump was not working. I played with it some, putting the pickup hose into a bucket of water and getting the pump to work somewhat. So I do need to re-build the pump. I was able to get the bilge pumped dry.

I called Hutchins about the scupper. The sell a complete set of three pieces for less than $5. The are installed with marine sealant can be removed/cut with a putty knife. Matt said that the sealant can shrink over time and be the source of the bilge water.

What I'm going to do is get the pump fixed, then watch the bilge for additional leakage.  Because, who knows, maybe that water is old, maybe there is no current leak.

Thanks for all the help!

[Catawampus]

Tom,
You are correct. I worked from the outside to seal the gaps between the drain pvc pipes and the holes in the transom.

[kevnh]

You can order the pump repair kit from Defender: item 500855   Bosworth G500SK Guzzler Pump Repair Kit
This definitely improved the performance of my pump.

On my 02 SunCat I get about that amount of water in the bilge during a day sail.
I'm pretty sure I have it narrowed down to the 50 screws penetrating the hull around the centerboard flange.
Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they could leak after 13 years.

-Kevin

[Tom Ray]

Tom,
You are correct. I worked from the outside to seal the gaps between the drain pvc pipes and the holes in the transom.

That's what I did too. Cleaned the area out with various little bits on a high-speed air tool then used stick epoxy pushed into the resulting groove. Caulk under the white plastic cover plate that holds the rubber flapper.

The thing about PVC is, nothing can bond to it except more PVC using PVC cement. Even 5200 or fiberglass resin won't really stick to it. You can fiberglass all the way around it and hold it still or epoxy all the way around it and hold it still but boats flex and without bonding "still" is a relative thing. So I figured epoxy around the transom edge would hold it still pretty well and caulk would seal it pretty well. It didn't leak again while I owned the boat but no doubt it will again some day if the boat lives long enough.