Outboards

[rbh1515]

Shawn,
You are absolutely right.  The battery degrades over time.....but not due to it being discharged over 50%.
Rob

[Vectordirector]

I quickly looked at the Torqueedo web site a couple of years ago.  Haven't looked at it since, they may have even newer stuff.  Looked pretty cool to me albeit as I like to say, "Strikingly" expensive.  I seem to remember they had a solar charge option that seemed very cool.  I would say that if the Torqeedo fits your style of sailing, and you can afford it, why not.  I would do it just for the silence. When my current Suzuki goes, I'll look into them again.  I hate having my engine on, even to motor out or back in for 10 minutes.  That said, I prefer 4 strokes for my boating, the lack of fumes is a plus.  And mixing oil is a pain.   Fossil fuel has many drawbacks. It's major plus is availability.   I'm not about to get into the slectric/gas/nuclear debate though.  Seems to be where all these discussions wind up.

Living in Florida now, I'm liking the looks of Solar.  In Illinois I think, not so much.  Any of you IL guys ever see the wind farm out on I-39, south of Rockford?  Very impressive, as is their web site.  I can't remember what it is but Google Illinois wind farm and it should come up.  Also, Tesla has an interesting "home battery system" that Elon Musk talked about a couple of weeks ago.  Electric companies are very afraid of that one.  Hunter introduced a battery powered boat a couple of years of go.  Don't know how many were built/sold or the technology used.  Just a couple of days ago, one of the sailmakers in EU introduced a sail with solar panels on it.  A lot of them.  Sailinganarchy.com had the story.  Wow.   

Vectordirector

[rbh1515]

Reesail,
Thanks so much for the info!  That's exactly what I needed to hear.  I have researched the Torqeedo quite a bit, and it looks like it should be good, but I have still been a bit hesitant.
Rob

[TrinkaDink]

Honda + non-ethanol=no problems + plenty power

[Bob23]

Math we can all understand!
Bob23

[Salty19]

I am somewhat adverse to the four strokes, and have had problems with clogged fuel jets on the carburetor as well as fouled spark plugs.
Of course each time a failure occurred was when I needed them to get back into the dock. I learned to keep spare plugs and the plug wrench onboard, and have swapped it out on the water to get home.

They both also vibrated like a Harley, shaking the whole boat, and did not seem to generate the power they were supposed to. The 3.5 was new and the 6 was barely used and I cleaned the carb before using it for the first time.

I'm sorry, but lean running four strokes should not be fouling spark plugs, and I suspect they did due to the need to run the choke for an excessive period to help warm these lean engines up.   Why, when Billy and I went for a sail with his Sailpro, it too fouled the plug and left us without a motor.

Nope, I'm sticking with 2 strokes. Our 1998 Yamaha 8hp 2 stroke twin hums along smoothly and is quiet compared to a single cylinder four stroke.  4 years of use with only draining the carb at the end of the season and zero problems with clogged jets.  Ethanol gas, but I do put in a few additives and strain the gas with a filter than prevents water from passing through.   A 100:1 gas:oil ratio is fairly benign from the pollution perspective given I might run 3-5 gallons of gas each season through it. And it fires right up and gives me no problems (except the pee stream tends to clog up, solved with a little weed-wacker line poking, and water jacket cover removal every two years. It's just junk from the lake and spiders that take shelter within.

Got this outboard in 2011, as new, never run for $1,000.  Yep, 13 years sitting in a garage, intended as a kicker motor but never even started!

I would be a great candidate for the Torqueedo as I just don't need much range and would love to have the lighter weight, but until the price comes down a bit, I'm happy with the Yamaha 2 stroke. It should literally run forever given the amount of use, assuming decent care and quick attention should a problem occur.

[rbh1515]

Here is some data from the Torqeedo web site in regards to how long the battery lasts.  About 12 years ago I had a Colgate 26 with a 4hp Yamaha, and I rarely ran it past 1/2 throttle.  If I only use 1/2 throttle with the Torqeedo, I should be able to run it for quite some time!   Rob

Travel 1003 with integrated battery (29.6 V / 18 Ah)
Tenders, dinghies, daysailers up to 1.5 tons
       Speed in mph    Range in nm (m)    Run time in hours
Slow speed    2.3    approx. 20.0 (23)    10:30
Half throttle    3.4    approx. 10.5 (12.1)    3:30
Full throttle    5.7    approx. 2.8 (3.2)    0:35   

[Shawn]

"I'm sorry, but lean running four strokes should not be fouling spark plugs, and I suspect they did due to the need to run the choke for an excessive period to help warm these lean engines up.   Why, when Billy and I went for a sail with his Sailpro, it too fouled the plug and left us without a motor. "

Something is wrong with that Sailpro. On mine I could push the choke in within seconds of it starting and it ran fine. The only time I ever fouled the plug on the Sailpro was when I put to much oil in the crankcase. It foamed and went up the PCV and fouled out the plug. That is running ethanol fuel, not running it dry and using the same three gallon tank of fuel (with Seafoam in it) all season long.

Shawn

[MacGyver]

So, I have skimmed comments, so take what I am saying with that in mind.

I love our Sailpro 6hp on our 19. The only issues starting it came because I wasnt thinking clearly and didnt do something like open a vent, pull choke properly, or had it in gear. All dumb issues, I caused due to it being new to me. BUT when the year came to a close, she run like a perfectly groomed machine, without issue. I follow procedure, she runs like a top.

I dump my part ethanol gas in my truck once every month and a half, and use some stabil in it to help keep the carb clean.

My mariner 2 stroke prior to this engine was a beast, ran well. it was oily...... I had to mix oil.... It had failed me several times out on the lake, especially one very bad time when it was very windy..... We were bringing the boat on the lake to a family get together at my uncles dock. as nice as that was, the channel was narrow, and the logs plentiful that remained (stumps) And after that I never trusted it again.
When I went to sell it I had changed fuel lines, new plug, new fuel, and she pulled and ran first pull..... had I not bought the sailpro and had it in my garage, I would have kept it. BUT when I went to show the buyer how well it ran, she wouldnt start, had a hell of a fit, leaked gas, and had air in the lines from the carb....... I was furious.... I took 50 off and sold it.

Honda's, well, the marina has 2 and I hate em. They never want to run correctly unless the mechanic takes and rebuilds the carbs, then they run for a day really well, then store for say a week and back to running like crap until one day we have the carb rebuilt.
Our 40hp fuel injected however runs great. FUEL INJECTION had better run great. The 40hp carb motor it replaced, also made by honda, every year and a half needed a plethora of new parts, including a new intake, and atleast one new carb. It also had lower unit corrosion like we had never seen before.... HORRIBLE. The area in front of the prop got so bad, it cracked all the way around it and broke, which that coupled with the intake carb issues was the last straw.

We are not hard on engines, and also constantly have new gas running through them... so the honda are a dissapointment unless it was fuel injected.

Suzuki....... now that was a odd duck for us...... It made its own oil somehow..... Even a Suzuki engine rep couldnt figure out what the hell was happening.... After a new block, lower unit, top end, it still made its own oil....... I have no explanation, and oddly, neither did suzuki.

Yamaha, which we had as our first engine long ago on that boat was a hell of a engine, 60hp, I think..... I do know it ran the best. we should have never gotten rid of it. it would probably still be running today if we still had it.

Sailpro is the bomb diggity...... I love that engine.
Mac

[brackish]

Wow, lot of opinions many of them conflicting.

I've had five outboard motors as sail aux.  Evinrude 6hp 2 stroke; Johnson 9.9 hp 2 stroke; Johnson 4hp 2 stroke; Suzuki 9.9 hp 4 stroke; Nissan Sailpro 6 hp 4 stroke.  The 2 stroke outboards were more problematic for me than the four strokes.  Of the three, the oldest and most used Evinrude was the best of the lot.  The other two stranded me on a number of  occasions.  The four stroke motors have never been a problem, have not stranded me and have run smoothly since day one.  The Sailpro so far has been the best of my motors however it is only had two years of use.   You do have to get comfortable with the slightly higher vibration level of a single cylinder motor.

When talking bigger, multicylinder, fuel injected motors the 4 strokes really shine.  Much smoother and more quiet, less fumes, and far more efficient.  My BIL has a Yamaha 225 on a 22 foot bay boat that is a dream.

[cdflan]

rbh1515
I'm a big Torqeedo fan but think their numbers are a bit optimistic except at full power for a Horizon Cat. At the 1000 w full throttle for the 1003, my data shows a speed of 5.4 mph vs. their 5.7 which is essentially equivalent although the efficiency on the Cruise 4.0 is 56% vs 48% for the 1003.  The 29.6v, 18 AH battery gives 533 whr.  Their full throttle (1000 w) data shows 35 min run time  which implies 583 whr.  Using 550 whr as capacity, half throttle run time of 3.5 hours implies 157 w input.  I don't have data at that low a power but extrapolating the curve down from 250 w, you would get 2.5 mph vs their 3.4 mph.  Their slow speed calculates to 52 w input which is too far below my data to speculate.
If you're serious about the 1003, I'll run some speed trials at those wattages.
Electric power is a joy.  Need to run into the wind or caught "in stays", just drop your hand to the throttle and off you go.  No mess, no smells - the cabin and bilge still smell like they just came out of the wood shop after a year and a half.

[rbh1515]

cdflan,
Great info!  I am definitely getting the 1003 to hang off the back.  It will be interesting to see how it performs, but since I just daysail and only need to get in and out from the dock, it should be fine.  Looks like the 4.0 has a different prop than the 1003.  I looked at the 4.0, but the cost with batteries shoots way up!
Rob

[Duckie]

All of the comments here are reinforcing my doubts about sailing with an engine as a necessary part of the plan.  I will admit that I am terrible with mechanical equipment, including cars.  Since I got my CP 16, I have been worried about some kind of catastrophic failure that I don't have a backup plan for.  I am not confident about being able to row such a heavy boat for very far or to even usable effect at short distances.  Because of that I have been working to learn to sail off the dock and back to it without mechanical assistance.  So far I have found that it is more convenient to leave the motor out of the water unless the wind is totally against me. 

I have a new Yamaha 2.5 horse four stroke that I like very much.  I don't baby it, and it hasn't let me down yet.  I don't want to come to rely on it though.  Someday it probably will let me down and I will need to make other arrangements.  Maybe a big ole yuloh or something like that. 

Al

[Bob23]

  Au contraire on the rowing. I think it'd be pretty easy to row a Compac 16. Remember, practically the only reason you'd be rowing is if there was no wind. Of course, rowing into an opposing tide might be a pain. But in calm, non-tidal water it can and has been done.
But, that being said, I like my outboard. But I sail in tidal conditions which sometimes make it necessary to motor home in narrow channels
into opposing tide and wind.
  But I'm with you in using the motor minimally. I also sail off and back onto my mooring, sometimes not using the motor for a month at a time. Occasionally, I'll just go out an motor around to keep the motor in use.
Bob23

[nies]

I had the same thoughts and then I realized" its a sailboat".............................back up plan put sails back up.............nies