Outboards

[rbh1515]

As I have posted previously I am getting a Horizon Day Cat soon....once the snow is gone up here in the cold north.
I am 99% sure that I am going to get a Torqeedo 1003 outboard, but I still wondering if I should get a conventional gas or maybe a propane outboard (Lehr).
I was on Sailnet, and was amazed at all the complaints about new 4 stroke outboards.  There are a lot of complaints about carburetor problems and issues with the ethanol gas.
Where I live you can't get non-ethanol gas.
About 15 years ago I had a 26' sailboat with a 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha and had absolutely no problems with it for 5 years.
Since I daysail, I don't need a really long range, and I think the Torqeedo may be OK, but it is only equivalent to about a 4hp or slightly less engine.
Are people really having lots of problems with their newer 4 stroke conventional outboards?
Rob

[Shawn]

Rob,

In the years I had a Tohatsu Sailpro 6hp I had only one problem with it and I caused it. I overfilled the crankcase slightly which causes the oil to foam and that gets up the PCV and fouls the plug. Other than that I had no carb/fuel related issues at all. Started easily (almost always second pull) and ran great. I did have a Racor fuel/water/filter installed inline though which may have helped somewhat too. I added that a year or two after I bought the Tohatsu.

Shawn

[brackish]

I've been using my Nissan Sail Pro (same as Tohatsu) for two years with zero problems.  I do, however use non ethanol gas, never ever run it dry or disconnect the fuel line.  Start it at least once a month, usually more often.

[BruceW]

I have the Tohatsu; I use non-ethanol gas. BTW, ethanol here in NC at least, is going to 15%, making it even worse. If you can't find a non-ethanol gas, I'd stick with the other choices.

[Tom L.]

I have a  Nissan 5hp 4 stroke. When I bought my new for me 2001 Sun Cat the previous owner had let the boat/motor sit for I don't know how Long. Anyhow the motor would not run correct. Luckily I took it to a very smart and fair Mechanic. He could have told me anything but he told me the truth. These motors have very tiny jets in the carb. They don't like dirt and they don't like ethanol. He simply took the carb completely apart cleaned the jets and just as important the float bowl. It has run great ever since. I had similar problems with a Honda 2000i generator.

He told me that the ethanol in the gas evaporates in the jets and the float bowl leaving behind carb plugging residue. He advised me to use non ethanol gas and to run the engine dry after use. Simply disconnect the fuel line and let it run till it quits. Easy peasy. Haven't had a lick of trouble since. 

These engines are fuel misers and that is part of the problem. Gas last too long and the ethanol gas is the culprit. I use my boat a lot both winter and summer so I run a reasonable amount of fuel but I do not fill up the six gallon tank because it lasts too long. It is great when we make a long trip however.

I thought it would be hard to find ethanol free gas. It is not there is a web site dedicated to listing the stations/marinas that have ethanol free gas. There are a lot of stations. I have since started buying ethanol free gas for my lawn mower and edgers etc and for the Golf cart. All run much better  with the change. No additives.

The web site is  pure-gas.org  It lists all stations the pure is not the brand name Pure.  Calif. as always is behind the rest of us. They only listed 19 stations in the whole state while Florida had nearly 600.

I personally wouldn't want to lug a big battery nor be limited to minimal run time. But that's me.  Actually a battery driven motor just wouldn't work for the mini cruises we do.

Tom L.

[capt_nemo]

rbh1515,

Love my Yamaha 4 HP 4-stroke. Always use non-ethanol gas AND Stabilizer. Only fill my external tank about 1/3 to 1/2 full and add fresh non-ethanol fuel when necessary.

capt_nemo

[alsantini]

there are a lot of bad experiences with ethanol  and I can add one more.  When I bought my boat in April, the PO had always used ethanol fuel and had stored the boat all winter with 1/2 tank of the fuel.  Early on I experienced problems with my trusty Nissan 4 hp 4 stroke and finally it would not run.  Turned out the ethanol had eaten away the pick-up tube in the tank.  I wound up replacing the tank and lines.  In Illinois, it is virtually impossible to find non ethanol fuel, since we grow the corn to make this crap.  Years ago I started a series of preemptive things to do that have worked. 1. I never have less than 1/2 tank of fuel. 2. the fuel is treated with ethanol specific Stabil. 3. I never store the fuel beyond 6 weeks.  I will sometimes dump the stored fuel in my car and re-fill the boat tank. 4 When I get back into the slip, I disconnect the fuel line at the motor to prevent pressurized fuel from flooding out the carb. 5. I replace the filter each year.  This has virtually eliminated motor issues.  I have taken the carb apart and cleaned the jet and was amazed at how small it really is - it is no wonder that it gets plugged so easily.  I do not run the motor dry each time but will do it if I will not be using Off The Wind for a period of 2 weeks.  I sail a few times a week so the motor never has sufficient time for the fuel to evaporate in the carb.  Now that I am in Florida for the winter I am only using gas.... and the motor loves it.  I think my take on the issue is an electric is way more money than a comparable hp 4 stroke.  I know guys that have them and love them so it really comes down to personal preference.  By the way I do not have electricity available at the slip so charging would be an issue for me.  I guess if the batteries can be charged easily and the $$ is not an issue, a toquedo might be good.  Anyone looked at the propane fueled motors?  I am interested in them from a convenience standpoint but know of no one who has one.

[kickingbug1]

   i have had my catalina for only one season and have not had any problems with my 4 stroke mercury 4 horse.  i lay it on its side in the bed of my truck when trailering the boat and use stabil in the gas. i havent had any problems with ethanol gas and always buy the cheapest. the book says to only use the choke on the first or second pull or the motor will flood. following that advice it has always started on the second pull. i then let it warm up a bit before leaving the dock. when the sailing day is done, it always starts on the first pull without the choke. at years end i put the motor on an engine stand and poor the remainder of the fuel in my tractor.. i have to say that with all the bad press these motors get, i wasnt happy that a merc came with the boat. it only had about 6 hours on it so i just hoped for the best. given the choice i would have bought a 2 stroke. simpler-less parts. but time will tell. i seriously doubt that the manufacturers of these motors havent considered problems with ethanol gas. the cars we buy run fine on it but they are fuel injected and computer controlled. if i ever do have big problems with the merc i will go back to a two stroke.

[rbh1515]

... I think my take on the issue is an electric is way more money than a comparable hp 4 stroke.  I know guys that have them and love them so it really comes down to personal preference.  By the way I do not have electricity available at the slip so charging would be an issue for me.  I guess if the batteries can be charged easily and the $$ is not an issue, a toquedo might be good....

Yes, the Torqeedo is a little less than double the price of a 4-5hp gas engine.  But, there is no yearly maintenance.  The model I am looking at is the 1003, which has a battery that attaches to the top of the engine.  It can also be detached from the engine and hooked to the engine by a cable.  Because the battery detaches, you just take it home and charge it.  To fully charge from zero takes about 11 hours I think, but the engine will soon come with a quicker charger.  The battery only weighs about 10#s, and the engine with battery only weighs about 30 pounds.
Rob

[sailen69]

RBH1515,
The short and sweet answer for me is no troubles from the time I bought my Honda 2HP 4 stroke five years ago.  I usually switch the fuel supply to off and run the carburetor dry at the end of each sail.  I drain the tank if the motor will be sitting for a long time.  I pick up a fresh gallon of gas often.  I put the unused gas in the car or lawnmower each week and start out sailing again with a fresh gallon of gas.
Congratulations on the new boat and good sailing,
Rich

[Cats Paw]

Thanks TomL  for the info on pure-gas.org website. Find that I have 3 marinas within a mile of my home that will be selling the ethanol free . I plan to feed the Tohatsu 3.5 h.p. this coming season with the ethanol free. I only have a total run time of less than three hours on it since purchasing it new last spring. In the fall I run it out dry and emptied the fuel tank before putting away for winter.

[cdflan]

Using a Torqeedo Cruise 4.0 in a HorizonCat, I cruise at just over 4.5 knots at 1000 watts and just under 4.0 at 500 watts.  With the similar efficiencies, I assume you would get about the same with the 1003.  This would give you 1/2 hour or 1 hour range respectively which might be OK if you just need power to get in and out of a marina or cruise close to home.  Check the posting "An Electrified Horizon Cat" for complete information

[Tadpole]

I apologize to rbh1515 for hijacking his thread...well, at least diverting it a bit...but I have a question that I hope one of you can answer.  Like Kickingbug, I bought a new (to me) sailboat, and it came with an almost new (still in warranty) Mercury 4hp, 4 stroke outboard.  It's my first 4 stroke...it's also one heavy puppy.  I think my 9.9 hp 2 stroke weighed less than this one!  Maybe I've just gotten older and weaker??  Anyhow, I've read about all the restrictions on laying it down and carrying it so the oil doesn't run into the cylinder.  When I look at the diagrams of what NOT do do, I have to wonder if tilting it up out of the water while sailing puts it in a bad attitude.  It wouldn't make any sense, but hey, much of what is happening today doesn't make any sense to us old codgers.  I'm asking just to be on the safe side!  Input appreciated as always.

Tadpole

[hinmo]

chalk up one vote for 2 strokes
I have 2 Nissan (tohatsu) 3 hp's that are the easiest to keep running and the lightest. Also, a 4hp Mariner in reserve.

I currently own qty (3) 4stks (2 hp, 70 hp and 140 Suzuki's). They have their attributes. But I have never had a hard-stop issue with the 2stks.....4stks, yes

[Tom L.]

When I look at the diagrams of what NOT do do, I have to wonder if tilting it up out of the water while sailing puts it in a bad attitude.  It wouldn't make any sense, but hey, much of what is happening today doesn't make any sense to us old codgers.  I'm asking just to be on the safe side!  Input appreciated as always.

Tadpole

My motor  says to lay it down on the handle, shift leaver up for transportation. To be on the safe side when I tilt the motor up while sailing I rotate the engine so the handle is down, shift lever up. Not taking any chances.

Tom L.