Need a smaller jib

[Pete H]

I took my legacy for an outing last week. Wind blew up to about 20 knots and higher levels in the gusts. I needed to sail upwind but the boat was overcanvassed and couldn't stand up to it. Was bowled over in a couple of gusts so far that the lee coamings were under water. That was scary! A lot of water comes in very quickly!

I couldn't sail where I was going to, so I had go where I could sail to. I ran down wind to a sheltered arm of the lake and picked up a public mooring and sat it out. The wind screamed in the rigging and we tossed and rolled all day and all night and this was in sheltered waters. The gale blew out early the next morning and I went on my way.

So what I want now is a smaller jib, suitable for heavier weather. The standard jib supplied with my Legacy when I bought it new is described by the factory literature as a "lapper" and is about 50 square feet, and hanks on to the forestay with brass piston hanks. I was thinking of something smaller, hank less that can be roller furled from the cockpit. What is everyone else using? Any recommended sailmakers? Prices? Suggestions please.

Cheers,

[jb]

Hi Pete

how about just putting luff tape on your current jib and using that on a  new furler?

did you have your main sail reefed ?  If you have only a single reef point, a second set may be beneficial in making the boat more manageable under those conditions?

20 knots is a lot of wind when sailing into it, shelter was probably a wise choice.

try "   http://www.riggingonly.com/  " they list a variety of furlers and prices.

j

[Duckie]

I got hit by a very strong gust that lasted for half an hour last summer in my cp 16.  After I got home I checked at the coast guard station and it was showing 35 mph.  My furler jammed so I was unable to reduce sail in the face of that.  I let the boat round up until it stood up again then let the sheets for both sails fly.  Once I got seated properly and had the tiller in hand I sheeted in just until the sails stopped flapping.  With both sails right on the verge of depowering I was able to make way toward the landing.  It was pretty intense.  You may want to buy a smaller jib and use that when there is a possibility of stronger winds on a given day.  I am getting to be a fan of rigging for the gusts and settling for slower going during the rest of the time.  I have a standard jib for my Weekender that I have mounted on the 16 that looks like it would make a good storm jib.  You might be able to find a suitable jib used on Craigslist. 

Al

[Citroen/Dave]

I second the recommendation of two sets of reef points on the main plus one on the jib to make a "storm jib". [ I prefer the jib reef points radial from the clew not parallel to the deck.] A jib downhaul will work where furlers jam. Very good advice to set up for the gust before you leave the dock.

[Pete H]

Thanks for your advice guys.

I visited a sailmaker a couple of days ago and have arranged to have a smaller jib made, with a wire luff to allow it to be set flying and to be roller furled.

I will then be able to do as you have suggested above and set a smaller sail area before setting out. If there is too little wind it is a different proposition to go forward and put on the larger jib in the calm than trying to change down a size in a strong wind with big waves. Going forward on such a small boat with no hand holds or lifelines then becomes a very dangerous operation, especially as I usually sail alone.

Yes, the standard main sail supplied with the boat has only one set of reef points. May look into getting a second set added in the off season.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Cheers,

[thomeng55]

Let me start with I am a neophite when it comes to sails.

I took my mainsail to a loft here in Chicago.  I told the sailmaker I wanted a Second set of Reef Points in the main.  He quoted me a price of a $200 and change based on the square footage.  We unrolled the sail, he went on line to look at the hull configuration, mast location, etc of the ComPac 23, checked out the 130 Genoa on roller furling I have, then started talking.  He went through A LOT of technical jargon, pointing to the mast/ keel configuration, the Genoa, etc.  At the end of the hour or 2, he said he could not in could conscience take my money to put the second reef points in the main.  Based on sail area, Lake Michigan conditions and hull/ mast location, the reduction beyond the jiffy reefing points I have would degrade the sailing and not be the best way to reduce sail area.

Please remember, I am NOT knowledgeable on sails.

He recommended that if the blow got to the point of of a second set of reefs in the main, unless I was a Racer (NOT), drop the main all the way, and sail on the furled genoa.  I said I had done that last summer and was not pleased with the wind flow over the roller furled genny.  He said that if that was the case, he would recommend a foam luff which would improve the partially furled Genoa sail quality.  Alternatively, if it were really blowing and Heaving too not an option, then a specialstorm jib might be a valid consideration.

I just wanted to pass this along.  This is NOT my recommendation, just comments from one of the Sailmakers I spoke with.  I think he was with Quantum sails, he jointly designed a racing sailboat (looked cool), raced internationally (and won some based on his wall) and also did a circumnavigation a couple decades ago. That gave me confidence in his opinion.  BTW, another sailmaker said to send in my mainsail and $274 and he'd put them in for me. 

Just sharing.

[Shawn]

Can't speak to the legacy bite on my old 23 I had a bank on storm jib (about a 50% jib built very strong) and two reef points in the main. They really extend your options on windy days. On 20-25 knot days with double reefed main and the storm jib up the boat was a walk in the park. Hitting hull speed with no drama at all while watching many other boats (with much deeper keels) with too much sail up really struggling to stay in control. Helm was very well balanced and not fighting us. One time when taking the kids out with their grandmother I tried just the storm jib in that kind of wind and it worked fine as I was mostly just reaching. I think we were doing 4-5 knots with just that little sail up.

Shawn

[Tom L.]

Pete H

I would have a heavy storm jib made with hanks  just like Shawn described. I use to sail Lake Erie and it gets too rough to use an outboard motor but with a double reefed main and a storm jib every thing was easy to handle and the boat could still point. Had to dodge the big waves because they will stop a small boat dead. Small boats in those kind of conditions will hobby horse and the motor will be out of the water so you have to sail.

I would not use a luff wire because it will be a real nightmare if you need to take it down. I always rigged a down haul on the jib. In rough water you don't have to go on deck and a storm jib is so small it really isn't necessary to put sail ties, just pull one of the sheets tight. It will lay on deck until you get in a sheltered area.

Tom L.

[BruceW]

There was a place online, can't remember, but google might find it, that had ready-made storm jibs for a Catalina 22; very heavy, small, would work great I think for a CP 23. I got one for my P-21 and it worked really well with the reefed main.

[Salty19]

Agree with Shawn and Tom..a nice hank-on storm jib sounds like a good fit.  Put it up while you are at the dock.  A flying jib is not going to give you good pointing, and being only supported at three points, will put considerably more force on those points, rather than it being spread across the luff.  Sure, it can be and has been done, but might not be optimal.

OR do a heavier weight, say 6oz fabric, 110% with a furler and two reef points in your main sail. This way you can furl it in a bit without going on deck or let it out for normal winds.

By simply reefing you should be able to keep sailing in winds well past the conditions you describe.

Was your main sail reefed?  If not...that is the first thing to do if any doubt as to wind strength exists. Then worry about the jib...

[Pete H]

Once again, well thought out advice and helpful suggestions, thanks guys.

On the day in question I left the harbour with only the mainsail set and had it reefed down to the only set of reef points fitted. Once out of the sheltered harbour area I could sail ok across wind but could not sail upwind, so up went the jib, (this is rigged with a down haul), and was already hanked on along the side deck. When the jib was deployed the boat went like a cut cat but when the wind picked up it was overpowered and in some of the bigger gusts it was completely in uncontrollable, except by letting out the sheets so the sails just flapped.

I'll see how it goes when the new jib arrives. I do realize that utilising a flying jib means some loss of sailing efficiency but as I'm not racing that doesn't concern me too much. My last boat was cutter rigged and used a flying roller furling stay sail as well as a stem head jib, this sail was a joy to use, set it up furled before leaving the jetty then just pull on its sheet to deploy it and when desired just pull the furling line to roll it up.
The next step will be to buy a heavy weather hank on storm jib, but really if the wind is that strong I either don't go out (I'm pushing seventy, diabetic with heart disease, overweight, very short sighted and not as agile as I used to be) or I fire up the motor and pretend I'm a motorboat.
Cheers,

[capt_nemo]

Pete H.,

As Lin & Larry Pardy once wrote, "Reef Don't Buy"  when it comes down to needing a smaller headsail.

I followed their advice many years ago on a Catalina 25 with about a 110% "Lapper" and had a set of reef points sewn into the sail. It was quick and easy to shift to the new tack and clew of the reefed headsail.

With single reefed main'sl and reefed jib, the boat was well balanced, performed well, and was a joy to sail in heavy air with no excessive weather helm. My wife and I felt quite comfortable and safe despite spray and spindrift reaching us in the cockpit. We sat there in our "Foulies" while our faces got wet, but we were wearing smiles.

Just say'in.

capt_nemo