mast stays and rotten floor timber

[blowmedown]

Hi!

I am a proud new owner of a happily rescued Com-Pac 16.  ALthough I'm quite the handy gal, sailboats are new territory to me.  SO, I have both a painfully basic question, and a slightly more advanced question.  I've been fortunate enough to be allowed to bug some kind sea-faring gentleman at the local repair shop, but am trying not to further take up their work time during busy season...  So, I am turning to the greater CP 16 community...

First, my boat has a forestay and the two sidestays (shrouds?), but is it supposed to have a backstay too?  Are the slightly back-set side tangs enough to keep the mast from tipping forward?

Also, (and I may not get these terms right), the thin liner in the cabin of the boat (separating the cabin "floor" from I guess the "bilge" where the keel is) cracked out, due to sitting in the rain for many years (I live in the NW, lots o' rain), and allowing water to sit against what I've been told is called the "floor timber".  This is the vertical half-moon shaped piece of plywood that the compression post is bolted to.  So I'm going to cut it out and replace it, glass it back in.  Anybody out there done this before?  Any words of wisdom? 

I have pics, but haven't figured out how to post them with this message.  Can send out.  They're lovely.

OK, thanks for your time.  I'm psyched to start this project, dying to get out there.

Let me know whaty ou think!@!

Liane  (haven't decided on my pirate name yet)

[spaul]

Hi Liane and welcome to the CP forum, lot's of good people here with centuries of knowledge to share.
I suggest someone from the cp16 group will follow up with you soon. There are several boats of the 16' variety that have been repaired similarly to yours lately. There are loads of pictures too which shoulld be of some help.
I drive a cp27/2 which is enough different I won't comment on your tasks but rest assured you'll have plenty of help coming your way.
Good luck,
Steve Paul
cp27/2 "IM PAUL SIVE"

[spaul]

Liane,
In this same help section is a primer from CaptK on "how to post pictures" in your responses. Give that a try so we can get some help out to you quickly.

Steve Paul

[blowmedown]

Have tried to move this message to the CP16 spot but am having trouble logging in, as I can see many people are.  I have not been able to post in the CP 16 category.

I will keep trying.  ANd add photos (thanks for the heads up on the directions).

Liane

[TroyVB]

Hi Liane,

Welcome and Congrats on the CP16 you will love it.

I have an 1987 which I have replaced the bulkhead to which you are referring.  Mine had dry rot in the area around the compression post.

I used a dremel tool to cut through the fiberglass tabbing which holds the bulkhead to the berths and the hull.  It was a fairly simple job, but be sure to wear a dustmask and cover all you skin.  Epoxy can be nasty stuff for your body.

Once I had the piece out I was able to use it as a pattern for the new piece.  I had some 3/8ths marine plywood so I doubled it by gluing it together with epoxy.  This meant that I had to get longer bolts for the compression post, but I had the wood.  I believe that the original is 1/2 inch.

Use fiberglass tape and epoxy to glue the new piece back in place and you'll be sailing before you know it.  This was the first repair that I had to do on my CP and although I was worried when I started it was not as complicated as I thought it was going to be.  Hardest part was the whine of the dremel as I started to cut into my baby.

[TroyVB]

Sorry I forgot the first question:

Nope, no backstay

[crbakdesign]

Hi Again Liane,

(Now I sees your problem. Let me know which ID you want to keep, and I'll delete the others. When you register, the email address must be unique in the database - a simple rule to keep from bloating the membership list with false IDs. )

Now to the problem at hand. I and several others have reworked the cabins of the CP16.  The half-moon board is the bulkhead, which seperates the little quarterberths from the forespeak.  All that has to do with the general layout - from a functional standpoint, this lil piece of wood should be cut out and the inside of the hull sanded if it is water damaged.  The purpose of the bulkhead is to support the mast and cabin top, via a hickory or other hardwood beam bolted to the backside of the cabin.  I have pictures of my CP16 with these items replaced in the owners gallery.  There are others who have posted similar images.  It's a tough job, but not as bad as building a boat from scratch!

[K3v1n]

Welcome Liane,

On my boat there was just a little dry rot around the bolt hole so I took the easy way out. I just cut a piece of Ipe decking to match the contour of the hull and berths and bolted that through the existing plywood then drilled a new hole through the compression post and bolted that to the newly added piece of wood.

I also cut a block of 4x4 to fit under the compression post inside the front storage compartment. It seemed odd to me that the post just floats in there.





-Kevin

[Paul]

Liane:

Welcome and congrats on your new purchase.  You'll love the cp-16.  Good luck on your project.

[sawyer]

Welcome to the site............  As you can see, Kevin is one of the masters of repair, my hat is off to him, much more patience than myself, maybe I just have too many thing going in my life, need to weed the garden, so to speak.....  Project boats always intrigue me, but I probably don't have the patience to do major work, I'm a user not a repair guy...............    Nonetheless, this is a great site with tons of info and knowledge for your new CP...............   Doug   

[dusty]

you've chosen a good vessel.

maybe you, k3v1n, sawyer, crbakdesign, troyvb, spaul, and a couple of your alter egos can go on a rendezvous!@!

hehe.

dang, i'd like to go too, great company.

in fact, i'm just gonna do it. i'm gonna make a dare, and i absolutely one hundred seventy seven thousand seven hundred percent dare you to not cross the finish line first . .. ... In A rAcE aRoUnD tHe WoRlD!@!@!

sunday! sunday! sunday!

buh buh buh be there! be there! be there!

[Liane]

WOW!  Thanks guys.  I am thrilled with all the advice.  Kevin, your cabin puts mine to shame, but at least I know what I'm striving for!

And thank you to "crbakdesign" for fixing my access to this site -- it's invaluable.

TroyVB, your comments were all I had when I set out to start the project, and they were great.  I should have followed your advice about wearing long sleeves -- my arms are slivered with invisible fiberglass bits (which I know from past insulation-hanging experience will eventually go away). 

SO:  First I made a template of the bulkhead with cardboard.  Then, I started removing the bulkhead by first just cutting the fiberglass seam all the way around with a hammer and chisel.  Time consuming but worked like a charm, was able to pop the piece out in a couple chunks (it came apart as was rotten through).  Now chipping out/sanding the left over resin/epoxy out of the way.  So far, so good.

The bolthead holding the compression post to the bulkhead was aimed downward at about a 30 degree angle, indicating that some massive jolt shoved the post down vertically, and the rotten bottom of the bulkhead gave way under the pressure, thus bending the bolt (the top section of the bulkhead, where the comp post was bolted to, was not rotten).   Got it out with a vice grips and hammer (my two favorite tools).

QUESTION:  My compression post (made of hardwood) has a horizontal crack around the circumference, about halfway up the post.  Once the bulkhead and bolt were removed, the post separated, revealing a hard shell (about 3/8) and an inner (big fat) dowel rod.  Again, the crack is horizontal, not vertical, and the pieces still mate together perfectly, so I think this will not jeopordize the integrity of the post (it's not like a crack along the grain vertically).  Opinions?

I also have several questions:

1.  what's the best way to push the pieces back together, before bolting to the new bulkhead?  If I use leverage to try and push the outer shell up along the dowel, it really bows out the top deck bubble (for lack of proper description)  where the comp post connects to the "deck" (?) from below.

2.  how is the compression post connected at the top?  mine is nicely glassed in, can't see any signs of nuts/bolts, and of course the mast base bracket (terminology?) covers the top deck bubble thing.

3.  on another subject:  forestay and sidestay (shroud?) tangs:  the tangs seem kind of thin, and are only bolted into the fiberglass hull.  I'm bulking it up with fender washers, but still, it seems kinda weak for the amount of stress that could occur (especially if that is what bent my comp post bolt).  Do you double them up, or reinforce the hull where they connect? 

OK, that's all for now.  You guys are awesome.  I was going to post picks, but maybe not until my boat looks as good as Kevin's (so don't hold your breath).  OH, by the way, I had to cut out the "V" part of the V-berth to get at the cracked out fiberglass hull liner and bulkhead (the V is gone, now just a rectangle). I was just going to make a (removable) plywood piece to sit at the same level of the berths, making a uniform cabin floor.  Is there anything wrong with that idea?  Just curious. 

THANKS!!!!  I really appreciate your time.  It's like having a team of experts on my side.  How cool!

Liane
(still no pirate name)

[Liane]

Hey!  It's me again, with a new question (please read other really long detailed message I posted just before this first)...

SO, I've enlisted my neighbor the finish carpenter to help me cut out a new bulkhead out of ubelievably expensive marine plywood (he's got fancier tools than my crappy circular saw).  We first tried the template on a crappy piece of thin wood, to see if it lines up with the hull, before cutting into the expensive marine plywood (his idea). 

We quickly realized that we can't even get the thin piece in, between the compression post and the fore-end of the berths.  SO, new question:

Do I try to get the compression post out, or cut the fore-end of the berths?

If taking the post out, how the heck is it connected up top, beneath the lovely (original) glass job?  I suppose I could just remove the mast base bracket thing, and see for myself, but it's really glued down. 

I'm thinking cut the berths.

What do **YOU** think!?!?!?! 

We're actually trying to do this today.  But maybe I'll get lucky with one of you guys online before we rev up the saw.

THanks!

Liane

[Pat McL]

Hi Liane

I have rebuilt the entire interior in the Teddy B and built a new compression post as part of the process. It is held by a simple stainless wood screw through the cabin roof. Remove the 4 screws and lift off the mast base. You will find the screw holding the post centered under the mast base. Just unscrew it and the post will now be able to slide around. When you replace the stainless base, be sure to use a good marine sealant such as 3m 5200. I used a nice piece of Honduras Mahogany for the new post.  --- Pat

[Liane]

Pat

Brilliant.  Thank you.  Where does one find a solid hardwood post?

I haven't seen them around. 

Liane