19 vs 23

[archimedes]

Ok,  so I've been looking for a 23' in my area for a while with no luck.  I've sailed the 23's for some time now and am quite familiar with them (rentals).

A 19' has come up for sale nearby and I am considering it,  but don't know much about the differences between the two.  Looking at the stats here they seem kinda similar.  I'm actually surprised that Hutchins sees a market niche that needs to be filled between  the 16' and the 23'.  But what do I know.

Should I hold out for the 23' that I want?  Or is the difference small enough to take the plunge now with the 19'?

Anyone care to weight in with suggestions,  experiences,  thoughts?

[archimedes]

Also,  do folks with the 19' have one. or two axle trailers?

[NateD]

Go checkout the 19 and get inside of it, what do you have to lose? The additional 4 feet make a big difference in the size of the cabin. How do you plan to use it? If you're trailering it often, then a 19 might be a better fit for you. It would be easier to tow (weighs 1,500 pounds less), easier to setup, and easier to launch. Somewhere between 19' and 23' you cross a line from big-small-boat to small-big-boat, or maybe that happens between 23' and 25', hard to say. But from a practical stance, the 23 will feel much bigger and weigh much more. If she is going to stay in the water most of the time and you plan to spend some nights on her, then I would hold out for a 23. If you're going to daysail, or if the boat will be living on the trailer and launched for each use, then a 19 might work just fine for you. But you'll know as soon as you step foot in the cabin whether it will or not.

[HeaveToo]

Before you try to decide on what boat to get make a list.

On this list write down what your intended uses are for the boat.  Overnight cruising, day sails, trailering, putting it in a slip, etc.

Next figure out what your boat budget is.  Also figure out the initial cost that you want to spend.

A boat budget similar to mine includes:  Bottom Paint, 6 month slip rent, maintenance, upgrades, etc.

Another item that I often forget is the cruising costs:  Fuel, ice, occasional transient slip, food, etc.

Finally come up with a list of must haves and nice to haves:  Roller Furling, head, amount of water storage, layout.

You should be able to use this list to compare boats and figure out what you need, what you want, and what you should have.  All boats are a compromise, don't forget that fact. 

[jpfx]

hold out for a 23'

[Craig]

Difference? Four feet. Huge. Sounds like you are predisposed to 23. Check out the 19 carefully. May be too small for your needs. Both are fine boats!

[relamb]

I concur with NateD, depends on what you want to do.  I've had a CP16, CP23, and now a CP27.
If you want to keep the boat at home in the driveway and head out to a local lake for a sail after work, get a small boat.
If you want to take it on vacation and do some sailing, without having to tow a monster and get 10 mpg, get a small boat.
If you want to spend weekends or a week on board, or pay for a slip, or can leave it at a local sailing club, get a CP23.  But with the 23 I would not tow it somewhere and go for a 1 day sail, not worth the hassle unless it was for a few days.  Although I took it on vacation a lot, I'd always be comparing driving the truck at 10-12 mpg vs driving something that got 20-30.
You'll probably use the 23 much more if you leave it at a slip.  You'll take a smaller boat many more places.  But nothing stops you from camping on a 19 for days, I spent several nights sleeping in the tiny cabin of the CP16 with my youngest son.

[Craig]

All the above is great advice!

[Subsailor637]

But Craig and I both know the real choice is the 20' Horizon Cat!  Easy to launch if you trailor, good size if you are going to keep in a slip... And why bother with two sails when one works just fine?

[peterg]

All of the preceding replies were fairly spot on. The 19 is a reasonably good sailing boat that does pound and get slowed down immensely by choppy conditions. I've had two 19s and have been able to optimize their performance to be very quick and responsive sailers, in the right conditions. Easy set-up is a plus with the 19- at a younger age, I always took the 19 on the road and was able to get it rigged solo in short order and enjoy weekend outings. The accomodations are satisfactory for a couple who is still flexible and nimble. We even used to plug up the cockpit drains and fill the cockpit with water from Round Valley Reservoir for an impromptu romantic hot tub- the joys of youth!! The next boat was another Bob Johnson design- a CP27 that was a scaled up 19, in my opinion. Very comfortable accomodations, but too light, shallow drafted, and excessively free-boarded to be  happy in  conditions of higher winds and waves- not a great boat for serious sailing to weather. Great in conditions that suited her design, however. Now the 23, my current Compac (Clark Mills design), is not a boat that I would consider doing much trailer-sailing with, unless for longer cruises that would justify the increased set-up difficulty. We keep the Beagle at a marina during the sailing season and on her trailer at home, off-season. I'd rate the 23 as the best sailing of the three Compacs, as well as having very reasonable accomodations for two, as long as you could live with sitting headroom. We anchored out last night for the first time on the Beagle, and yes, we do miss a real head, galley, diesel, and standing headroom, but do not miss the extra costs of maintenance, storage, etc. Truth be told, if  Compacs were the only boats that I liked, my choice would definitely be a 23 with diesel, or a Horizon Cat with diesel, though I have not yet sailed a HC. I have been on a HC and thought it was nicely laid out, and it is an updated version of a time-tested design.

[Craig]

Ahh yes!  Horizon Cat..........There is no substitute!    Love the diesel!

[archimedes]

Great info folks, thanks.

Seems the more you learn the less you know. 

I will keep whatever boat I get in the water at home.  I don't want to deal with taking the boat in and out of the water every time I sail.  Although I found a place nearby that I can leave the boat on the trailer,  with the mast up,  and put it in the water whenever I want, without having to step the mast.

I'll almost certainly be sailing alone 90% of the time.  But will want to be able to go out in the Atlantic,  conditions permitting.  I also would like to be able to trailer down to the keys,  put the boat in the water,  and sail for a few days by myself.

[HeaveToo]

With your plans you should definitely hold out for a 23.

Remember, every extra foot on a boat makes a HUGE difference. 

[Billy]

I own a 19 and trailer sail mostly. This is something to consider. If you can afford a slip then I think you will be happier w/ a larger boat. I have a friend who lives on the water and I can leave my boat there anytime I want. However, I personally do not like leaving my boat in the water. I can see it devalue by the minute when she is in the water. Plus part of the fun of owning a trailer sailor is determining where to go. I would hate only being able to sail the same area every time I go out.

I looked at buying a 23 about 2 years ago. And the quarter births were actually smaller than the births on the 19. The V-birth was larger and the cockpits were comparable. One thing is that the 23 sits much higher on the trailer. We needed a ladder to get in and out of the boat. On my 19 I can use the swim ladder. I can also jump out of my 19. I would probably break an ankle jumping out of the 23. After sleeping on it for a few nights I decided to stay with my 19 based on size and layout. I never sailed the 23.

I have owned a 16 and did not like the way she sailed....at all. Too much slippage to lee. Granted it had older sails but we were lucky if we could get 65 degrees to the wind (no exaggeration). Being that the 16 and 23 have basically the same hulls I assume the performance is similar.

I love my 19 and think it is the perfect size for a small boat. We over night often, 3 nights sometimes, day sail and find that it is more than sufficient. I would hate to rig a 23 more than one or twice a season. At that point I would just rather have a boat with standing headroom (a 27) or a day sailor with an easy to set up rig.

I vote 19!

[NateD]

Being that the 16 and 23 have basically the same hulls I assume the performance is similar.

I wholeheartedly agree with all your comments, except that one. I've owned 2 16's (1982, and 1992), and a 23 (1991), and the 23 pointed higher with less leeway than either of the 16's, or at least that is the way it felt. Two weeks ago I was out on the water in the 1992 16 with new sails and a custom foiled rudder in light wind and I couldn't believe the leeway it was making (small lake, no current). I haven't sailed a 19, so I can't compare it's characteristics, but my 23 was a much better sailor than either of my 16s.