mainsail question

[kickingbug1]

    what benefit if any can be gained by having the top two battens full length?

[Bob23]

That's an interesting question...I don't know but I'm curious to hear answers from those who do.
Bob23

[Shawn]

When I replaced the main on Serenity I went with full battens for the whole sail along with a loose foot. I have been very impressed with the sail. The full battens help the sail keep its shape in pretty much all wind conditions. As a nice side benefit the battens dramatically reduce the amount of flogging on the main when you raise or lower it.

Shawn

[Craig]

Better sail shape. Battens are engineered to optimize the shape of a given cut of sail. They support the roach(the part of the sail that extends aft of a straight line that extends from the head to the clew) & help control draft and twist. Since the roach is most pronounced at the top of the sail the full length battens give better support.

[Jon898]

All except one of my boats has had partial battens (and typically very little roach).  The one exception was a Precision 28 which had a fully-battened main.

Plus points for the full length battens:
- Allows much more roach to be added...more sail area can result in more speed.
- Sail shape more consistent, particularly in light conditions.
- Very little flogging which may extend the life of the sail and is certainly quieter.
- Looks cool and racy.

Negatives (IMHO):
- If the roach is increased from the original design, the added area is up high, which is fine on a reach or run, but not that good hard on the wind (earlier onset of crew screaming).
- Tell-tales become essentially the only way you can sense the set of the sail...if you're not used to this it's easy to stall the sail unintentionally.
- Depending on the sail slide system(s), hoisting/lowering can be either unchanged or a struggle as an overtensioned luff will tend to collapse the batten against the mast.
- Storing the sail out of season can be a challenge if the battens are sewn in (as they were in the P-28) as the only choice is to roll the sail up its luff resulting in a boom-length sausage (similar issues exist with kevlar and mylar sails).  You also have to be a little more careful flaking the sail on the boom to avoid twisting or kinking the battens.

I found the 3rd and 4th negatives above the only ones I did not like, and they were outweighed for me with the nicer sail shape and good performance of the P-28 which I could single-hand like a giant racing dinghy.

[kickingbug1]

   i have done a little research and i have concluded that having full length battens at the top two to probably be a pretty good compromise. as always i do appreciate the input. i figure that i will hear from mattman (the only "racer" i know. what is your take---matt?

[MacGyver]

I did a lot of research talking with sailmakers, and they primarily told me to go with 2 full top battens and 2 lower partials, they felt it was a good fit overall.
But once I talked to Sailrite, and told them I was more concerned with the mainsail not catching in the lazy jacks, and the kind of sailing we do, we agreed that full batten main was the better choice.

That being said, for a good race sail in the normal scope of sails, 2 full battens and 2 partial is a good route to go. I look forward to see what Mattman has to say as well.

Mac

[kickingbug1]

  thanks fellas, ill have to order my sail this week to get it in time for the clr. by the way mac, when we sailed on friday (a prefect day by the way) she performed much better with the furler and we averaged 5 knots for most of the day. one other thing the crew seems to like the 4 stroke merc better than the weedeater i was using on the 16,  i wonder why

[MacGyver]

"one other thing the crew seems to like the 4 stroke merc better than the weedeater i was using on the 16,  i wonder why"

This is something that should be investigated, I mean, what the heck is wrong with the cruise and carry?? I think something is wrong with your crew..........

Mac

[Salty19]

"one other thing the crew seems to like the 4 stroke merc better than the weedeater i was using on the 16,  i wonder why"

This is something that should be investigated, I mean, what the heck is wrong with the cruise and carry?? I think something is wrong with your crew..........

Mac

Agree.  We make fun of Kicknbug's Cruise and Carry (referred to as chitty-chitty bang-bang), but hey...it runs flawlessly, does the job well, is really lightweight and doesn't need hardly any maintenance.   

Kick, I'm thinking you gotta paint that sucker with skulls and flames, maybe slap a Metallica or Fender sticker on it too. I personally like Rush, but whatever rock band sticker she likes should do it. It's just not cool enough, that's why she doesn't like it.  Oh and a down pipe exhaust into the water will give it that nice bass tone. Trust me on this, she'll love it.

[Salty19]

As for the mainsail battens,  this is a tough call.

On one hand the performance will be better with full battens, but they are more to deal with.

I really like the full battens all the way down. Most power is generated further down the sail, so that's where you want the best sail shape.

At anchor I don't think they that much more to deal with, just tie straps at each batten. You may have seen that pink nylon strap thing I sewed up that secure the sail.
It's really storing it and rigging each. You might be able roll it up a whisker pole or the boom and store in the cabin. Then just remove battens once a season to store your sails inside.

[mattman]

Well this is the third attempt, not being happy with where I went with the other possible posts. The question was the benefit of full battens. Yes full battens will get you better sail shape and in theory should provide you with some extra speed. I see few down sides except for added cost. It really boils down to buying the best sail for the conditions that you sail the boat. A cruiser doesn't need kevlar-a racing dink doesn't need reef points.

Personally for my beer and sandwich spend the night on board weekender boat cp16 I like "good" sails, by that I mean a sail with that has good materials and workmanship-doesn't have to be the best definitely not the cheapest, the ability to adjust shape-I like to play with control lines, and will last for a reasonable time-say 5 years with  consistent weekend use.

For others the criteria will be different depending on what they like.

More toward Kickingbug though, I get the sense you are wanting to move to a different level of sailing than you have been doing in the past. You seem to be yearning for something that your 16 doesn't provide.  I think your new boat will be a springboard in that direction. I really do encourage you to fiddle with the new boat, but also catch some rides on some of the other boats on the lake. I think your learning curve would be much steeper and you will meet some really great guys and gals-just like here on the forum!!!   Happy sailing mattman.