Just gel coat or epoxy and paint

[JTMeissner]

Request some opinions from fellow CPYOA members:

Now that I have moved the boat closer to home, it will become much easier for me to take an evening (thanks DST) to do minor repairs/touch-ups.  I am now in a tidal/current/brackish water area, so there are other considerations I need to think about before I launch the first time here, but while I wait for motor repair/purchase, I figured I'd do some other work.

I've had some gouges/scratches since original purchase (I don't think I've done much to add to the number).  Several are fairly deep, others are somewhat typical spiderwebs, fine cracks, etc. for a 40 year old boat.  On closer inspection, some seem to be previous repairs that have deteriorated over time (boat sat for 10 years before my purchase).  I showed these pictures to the guys at WM, and we discussed gel coat repair.  However, once I mentioned that I was going to repaint the whole boat, he suggested just using epoxy with a fairing compound and then just paint the whole thing; don't mess with gel coat.

Up front are the deepest gouges.  Shows the underlying fiberglass, and how thick the gel is in these areas:
     

On top, where we think there was a previous repair, it looks like the outer surface shrunk, cracked, and opened up:
 

Around the rest of the boat, there appears to be a variety of cracking, sometimes around installed cleats, but none that seem to leak through the underlying fiberglass:
         

Thoughts?  Opinions?  I did walk out with some penetrating epoxy that was suggested to seal into the cracks before widening them to put thickened epoxy in the scratch (especially up top).  I suppose if I take off the rub rail, there will be a lot more cracks as it looks like a few rough dockings have occurred previously.  This is also just the exterior, I have some work to do on the interior that I may save for this winter.  Also, yes, almost every fixture has a mix of slotted and Phillips head machine screws.

-Justin

PS - I shrunk the photos for display here to save bandwidth, full size photos are at Photobucket: http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/library/com-pac%2016%20pics/BaBaLeLe/Fiberglass%20Repairs 

[wes]

Justin - amazingly, you actually got good advice at Worst Marine (except the "penetrating epoxy" part, in my opinion). Since you plan to paint, you don't need to bother with gelcoat. These cracks all look relatively superficial, albeit numerous. You have a project that's time consuming but not especially difficult. I would open up and clean out all the cracks, enlarge the hairline ones into a wider vee, fill with thickened epoxy (I like Interlux Water-Tite, but everyone has his own fave), then sand with 120 on a random orbit sander and proceed to hull dewaxing, priming and painting. The dewaxing step is extremely important.

An excellent guide is Don Casey's "Sailboat Refinishing," which you can pick up for $10 or so on Amazon. An excellent investment that will guarantee good results if you follow Don's step by step instructions.

Wes

[skip1930]

How does one best fix the 'cracks' that run through the anti-skid pattern on the cabin roof and down into the smooth surface?

Just follow the cracks best way and fill, ignoring the loss of 'skidded' surfaces?
After a fill and cure can the anti skid pattern be 'scared' back into the fill before painting?
I've never tried it. But sounds plausible.

skip.

[JTMeissner]

Wes, thanks for confirming suspicions.  I have several of Don's books on the shelf; you reminded me that sometimes going "old school" is easier than the internet...  Don's book on hull and deck repair (a portion of another book I own) walks right through the process.  I had the boat out on the river yesterday (first time sailing locally, and much more fun than epoxy work) and my guess is the PO did exactly what you are not supposed to, attempt to "paint" gel coat over cracks. 

Skip, I'm trying to figure out the best way through sealing those top cracks and then getting the pattern back.  I'm pondering having to manually scrape the pattern back in by hand or creating a mold to press into semi-hardened epoxy. Anyone know how the pattern is put on at the factory?

If I get yard work done and have time before forecasted rain I'll bring the boat to the house for some cleaning and can examine options more clearly.

-Justin

[MacGyver]

If you go in the classifieds and look at Together Time CP19 it has pictures of what I did. Mine was no where near as bad as the cracks on yours which could be from a multitude of different things.

To repair, IMHO I would grind them out and then fill with fairing Epoxies or something of the sort then do like what I did on my boat. But you would have to be ready for a big job....... I went insane and went full in on our 19 and we just did the entire thing..... I thought I would never get done........ It was amazing all the work, but I dont do anything easy, and am extremely thorough.

VERY REWARDING! But only really worth it to you.

Mac

[skip1930]

West Marine has a SixTen thickened two part epoxy in a premix tube.
Slap it on over a cleaned and vee'ed crack or gouge.
Dry and sand smooth. Paint.

skip.

[MacGyver]

Skip,

The WEST SYSTEM 610 is a structural adhesive. I am not saying that it isnt for that purpose because it is a pre thickened epoxy, but he would probably be better off using a fairing compound as it will be easier to sand by hand in comparison to 610.
Also he would have to buy multiple mix tips as they are bad when you are done since they mix inside themselves.

In my  profession, I would use 610 for more layup issues like gluing the keel on, gluing the halves together, etc. Perhaps even laminating large panels as standard mixing techniques are too much work.

Mac

[skip1930]

" Also he would have to buy multiple mix tips as they are bad when you are done since they mix inside themselves. "

Oh I just assumed he'd mix all of it up at once and toss what you don't use away. The working time is about 40 minutes. Should be enough to hit the big and deep scars. Not the 'spider' cracks.

And a faring compound ... I have enjoyed using Marine-Tex.


" Anyone know how the [anti skid] pattern is put on at the factory? "

It's part of the mold [it's cut in] before the mold is waxed and the liquid gel coat is shot in, takes on that pattern. Then the layers of resign impregnated glass cloth are then rolled in by hand.

Generally speaking molds can cost many tens of thousands of dollars to produce and it takes a heck of a lot of work to 'tune-up' the mold for the next hull. Part of the demise of the CP-19 was that the molds were shot and the profit's not there any more.

skip.

[Pacman]

I'm trying to figure out the best way through sealing those top cracks and then getting the pattern back.  I'm pondering having to manually scrape the pattern back in by hand or creating a mold to press into semi-hardened epoxy. Anyone know how the pattern is put on at the factory?

-Justin

You might consider one of the polyurethane nonskid products.

That would be a lot easier than molding anticked into the gelcoat (epoxy).

You just mask the area and paint it on.  It really works to provide needed traction on wet decks.

Or you could use the old surfers' trick of putting fine sand on the wet paint so it will imbed and provide traction.  (It works but maybe a bit too well and can remove skin DAMHIK)