Minicruiser Comparison

[Floyd]

The most recent issue of Small Craft Advisor (#86 Mar / Apr 2014) compares the West Wight Potter 15, the Montgomery 15, and the Com-Pac 16. I will try to upload the article here.

I would really like to hear the more experienced sailor's comments on this article.

Floyd in Tampa Bay

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[Tadpole]

Floyd,

Thanks for uploading the article.  Having recently made those exact comparisons, I was interested to see what the magazine had to say.  Anyone who has done their homework already knows the physical properties...strengths and weaknesses of each boat.  It has been said many times that every sailboat is a collection of compromises...actually a good metaphor for life.  I agree 100% with the summary in the article.  What are you looking for?  The comparison between the C 16 and the M 15 has often been stated as a preference between a Buick and a BMW...which I wholeheartedly agree with. 

I was looking for a C-16/II or III.  The M-15 was my second choice.  I had eliminated the Potters because of their well documented tendency to go turtle.  It only has to happen once with the admiral on board to end her sailing career. 

What do you want to do, and what conditions do you sail in?  It's very personal.

I live in eastern Oklahoma where it is almost always windy ...15 - 20 kts is normal.  Light air performance is not particularly important to me.  A solid feel and good stability is very important (think Buick), especially since I'm trying to get my wife more involved in sailing.  I've owned enough sailboats with center boards that I preferred not to have another one (M-15's who live on the water, have frequent centerboard issues...I've researched it!).  Mast raising...C 16 wins hands down...very important to us "seasoned citizens".  Pointing ability...would be great, but it's one of those things we might have to compromise on to get the other features we like.  That said, I haven't had my new (to me) CP-16/III in the water yet.  I suspect that with the brand new sails, the foiled rudder, and maybe the loose-footed main, I won't have to give up too much pointing ability...especially in the winds I typically sail in.

Bottom line...for me, and my circumstances, the later model CP-16 was the best choice for me! ...just my 2¢ worth.

Tadpole

[Billy]

Floyd,

Thanks for the article! Looking forward to sailing with you on Sat.

I'll tell you my opinion in person. But I really think the big brothers do it all a bit better

Billy

[brackish]

I live in eastern Oklahoma where it is almost always windy ...15 - 20 kts is normal

Well yeah unless you pay good money to rent a boat.

I lived in Sand Springs for 7 years but traveled to the Gulf Coast to do most of my sailing.  The one time I reserved a Catalina 22 on Lake Keystone, the wind went to zero.

You're right for most of the time however.

[Floyd]

Floyd,

I agree 100% with the summary in the article.  What are you looking for?  The comparison between the C 16 and the M 15 has often been stated as a preference between a Buick and a BMW...which I wholeheartedly agree with. 

I was looking for a C-16/II or III.  The M-15 was my second choice.  I had eliminated the Potters because of their well documented tendency to go turtle.  It only has to happen once with the admiral on board to end her sailing career. 

What do you want to do, and what conditions do you sail in?  It's very personal.

I live in eastern Oklahoma where it is almost always windy ...15 - 20 kts is normal.  Light air performance is not particularly important to me.  A solid feel and good stability is very important (think Buick), especially since I'm trying to get my wife more involved in sailing.  I've owned enough sailboats with center boards that I preferred not to have another one (M-15's who live on the water, have frequent centerboard issues...I've researched it!).  Mast raising...C 16 wins hands down...very important to us "seasoned citizens".  Pointing ability...would be great, but it's one of those things we might have to compromise on to get the other features we like.  That said, I haven't had my new (to me) CP-16/III in the water yet.  I suspect that with the brand new sails, the foiled rudder, and maybe the loose-footed main, I won't have to give up too much pointing ability...especially in the winds I typically sail in.

Bottom line...for me, and my circumstances, the later model CP-16 was the best choice for me! ...just my 2¢ worth.

Tadpole

Thanks for your comments.
The Buick/BMW analogy really clicked for me. I am a Buick guy, my racing days are over.

Da Boss don't sail. Floyd don't dance.  We have an agreement.

Floyd in Tampa Bay

[carry-on]

Does the Seaward Fox sloop compare? A little hard to find, but with a wing keel it is a nice rig.

[skip1930]

I'm thinking the Fox is too wide for it's length.
Perhaps a tip`O hat to stability?

skip.

[atrometer]

I had an M15 - great boat, nice sleeping area, sailed great, good draft, BUT a swing keel will give you problems sooner or later.  The CP 16 eliminates the swing keel (sailing to windward I don't care - use my engine if needed), has more storage especially in the bow to keep the boat from wallowing form overloaded stern.  Cockpit to sleep in if berths not to your liking.  More stable.  Seems easier to rig to me - not sure why.  Not as fast but if I wanted fast I wouldn't buy a sailboat.  That's my take - personal choice.

[Tadpole]

Funny you should mention the Seaward Fox...that was my last boat before the C-16/III.  She was a great little boat.  The wing keel had a little more draft than the C-16 and she was very stable.  Had a big boat feel to her... reminds me a lot of the C-16.  Yes, it is a little wider and the cabin is set up differently.  There is actually a seat with a reclining back in the cabin.  It came with it's own set of "personalized' dishes...kind of neat!

She was a little harder to rig.  I couldn't step the mast by myself without some kind of mechanical aid.  Also, she took a steeper ramp to get her in and out of the water.  There was also a model with a carbon fiber, un-stayed mast that was really easy to set up... hard to find though.

All in all, she was a very classy-looking little 17' sailboat.  However, not real practical for the lakes around here, and my gunkholing sailing style.  If you've ever run aground with a wing keel, you'll understand that statement.

Tadpole

[capt_nemo]

Tadpole,

"I suspect that with the brand new sails, the foiled rudder, and maybe the loose-footed main, I won't have to give up too much pointing ability...especially in the winds I typically sail in."

Sounds to me like you've done your homework and have outfitted your CP-16/III to ensure peak performance, not only going to weather, but on other points of sail as well! Think you're going to love how that loose-footed main allows you to control sail shape. Now if you were to change to a gaff headed main'sl ... just kidding!

Wish you many pleasant hours of sailing.


capt_nemo
Com-Pac Sun Cat

[Bob23]

Tad:
   I have run aground with a wing keeled boat...I understand. Last summer my brother and I were sailing a Precision 15K during blowout low tides here in NJ. Even though the boat only weighed a mere 600 lbs, once we dug in it was not much fun freeing her off. With the Scheel keel that my CP 23 has, one only has to heel the boat over far enough to free her.
   The Montgomerys are fine boats. I only hope I never come across an M23 for sale! Might be enough for me to trade my CP23...I didn't just say that, did I?
Bob23

[skip1930]

To enlarge print, hold the Ctrl key down and tap the + key.
Hold Ctrl down and tap the - key to shrink.

skip.

[Tadpole]

capt_nemo wrote:  "Now if you were to change to a gaff headed main'sl"

capt_nemo,  Thanks for the sailing wishes.  The truth is that I've been lusting over a Sun Cat for many years.  I've seriously studied the cat boat design, and I've had opportunities to sail them a couple of times.  Their rich history as fishing boats in the northeast is well documented.  The captain and his helper could literally leave the boat to tend for itself as they carried out their work....in all kinds of weather.  I discovered that they sail a little differently than sloop rigs, but once you get the hang of it, they perform quite well. 

Unfortunately they've always been a little "pricey" for me.  I was originally drawn to the Sun Cat because of the Mastender system, plus the fact that you only have one sail to adjust.  Maybe I'm getting lazy?  Anyhow, it was simply not meant to be, and I'm very happy with my C-16/III.  The mast is so light and easy to step, it's almost as easy as the Sun Cat.

Tapole

[capt_nemo]

Tadpole,

Let's see, I think the saying goes something like this, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with!"

By the way, to get the best performance out of my Sun Cat in very light to moderate winds, I became a little "sloopish". Added a 4' Bowsprit to experiment and play with various headsails. Works quite well.

[BruceW]

Hang on, Sloopy....

Pretty cool. I was considering that with my Suncat as well; then I got an offer and went to a sloop. I bet that works pretty well!