three point rig

[kickingbug1]

   last week i posted a question on the sailboat company web site about converting the cp 19 to a three point rig----check the site and see the answer----interesting, i might just try it if i go to a 19

[carry-on]

A three stay rig on the 19 would be a nice simplification. Keith's answer confused me a little. Do you keep the lower shrouds to help raise the mast? 
Not sure from the pictures if the rig is 3 or 5 stay.
Is a gaff rig on the main part of the alteration or an option?

[kickingbug1]

 you keep the lowers just to hold the mast while marking where the new chainplates go. as far as the gaff rig is concerned i think that is an option. if i get a 19 (negociating  now) im gonna try it and then post the results

[MacGyver]

Kick, I could probably help you convert if you get it.
We can film it for a new CPYOA series called "Pimp my boat, MacGyver edition" that we can then sell to these tv companies.

We just have to make it look as if the mast could fall at any time, and make it death defying and then also put in inflated prices for items and work. also we need to be under a impossible time frame, TV GOLD BUDDY!!! TV GOLD!!!!!!!!

Mac 

[kickingbug1]

 yeah, and also on the shakedown cruise-----im sure many viewers want to see a dismasting. now thats entertainment!

[Billy]

Kick,
Can you post a link? I looked at the website and cant find where they are showing the mod.
And not to be bothersome, but I really don't understand the purpose of the modification.

[MacGyver]

Billy,

http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/
Click on the Answers on the left below the Ask Questions

It wont directly link up.

Also, the pictures are mediocre, so save to the computer and blow them up some, gets grainy but gives you a idea anyway.....

Mac

[Billy]

Thanks Jason.

I still don't understand how not having a back stay can make raising the mast easier. Before i raise my mast I just double check to make sure it isn't tangled around the tiller and then lift. That is all. I don't adjust it or anything. It stays attached to the mast and the stern chain plate and I leave it alone. It really is a non issue. I haven't touched it in the 6 years I have owned the boat.

I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that this mod will make trailering or stepping the mast easier. As I mentioned in the other thread, I think the pros of having a backstay greatly out way the cons of it.

It is the only secure thing to hold onto in the cockpit when standing up or climbing into the boat over the stern rail. Unless you spring for the $450 mast gallows. Which I also don't see the purpose of and also think they look like a skinny add on. Plus, I doubt you would want to trailer this boat down the road w/ the mast still in the tabernacle and hanging several feet off the stern. The mast easily fits on the bow rail and stern rail when trailering.



you can see from the pic above that if the mast were still in the tabernacle if would be hanging way too far aft to be safe.

And then there is the added safety that comes w/ the additional stay. If for any reason ANY of your remaining stays should fail on a downwind point of sail, down comes the mast.

I guess if you are going to remove the spreaders, which I think do add a nice yacht feel, then you can sheet out your main a bit further so chafing the sail on them would be a non issue, but your boom will hit the upper shrouds sooner rather than later. And in the event of an accidental Jibe the boom smacking one of those stays under a load could be catastrophic!  

Kick, I recommend you sail the boat for a while before you change a very good design. One time I asked Gerry why there were so few 19s and he said it was because they made them so good. The used 19s were the new 19s worst competition. When it is all said and done the money spent on this mod (w/ or w/out the gallows) will cost hundreds of dollars that could be spent on new sails, or a foiled rudder (now that is a mod worth doing!), or a bimini, new sheets, or many many other things, like a plane ticket to come down to FL for the get together this coming spring. You can use my boat! Just leave the back stay alone!

And lastly, think about resell. Capt. Nemo has the right idea about his mods in that the boat can be returned to factory condition if desired by him or a future owner. This will not be your case.

This is just my two cents. Either way, I don't think you will regret getting a 19. Fair winds~

[kickingbug1]

     i should feel bad that someone would think i would leave the mast attached to the tabernacle. but hey worse things have been said of me. it does seem to me that stepping the mast with just three "wires" has got to be easier. stand her up and adjust the forstay turnbuckle just like a 16. i dont think the mods would cost much and the whole process could be reversed with little effort. as to the sternrail extension. i agree looks cheap and isnt needed. the factory stern rail gives you plenty to grab onto when getting back in the boat. and a simple topping lift is all that is needed. im still not sold on the 19 as a good trailer sailor. that bugger is one heavy boat (heavier by far than any other in her class) and if i were to get another tow vehicle it wouldnt be a gas guzzler. by the way i did plan on rigging the boat as is for at least one season and see how it goes. i as always do appreciate learned advice      thanks

[MacGyver]

When at work today I was thinking about the gains and such and to be honest, besides standing the rig and it possibly having a issue on the tiller handle (to which the one time it happened I just keep the tiller handle off, easily achieved) and frankly I cant see the actual gains.
You will reduce down wind as the boom cant swing as far on the 3 point rig.....
Loss of the backstay has a gain and a negative, gain being the opening of the transom, but the negative (to me anyway) is that you cannot tension it, which I do instead of the forestay. I think it is easier to tension the backstay because you can sit and do it. not have to lay and do that, etc.

Also, I like the balance on the rig, at the top you have one pulling forward on the head and the other pulling back.

I guess I would have to sail a 3 pointed version to see the difference....... But I am just not that sold on the whole deal to do it it my own.

BUT, Kick, you know that if you buy this, and wanted to do it, I would be more than happy to come by and assist. I love messing about in boats......... ESPECIALLY in my free time...... which is odd because I dont get paid in my free time, LOL

Mac

[crazycarl]

kick,

as you know, we tow our 19 with a jeep liberty renegade with a 3.7 liter V6.

we've pulled it through the smoky mountains without problems and on our flat roads we get about 15mpg.

i've always been more concerned with the stopping power of the jeep, given it's short wheel base, but we've never come close to skidding yet.

carl

[kickingbug1]

    more and more im leaning toward the 19. i think the present owner will allow me to step the mast before we deal (if we indeed do). that will help me to decide. the garage issue may require me to put on my carpenters hat though as i may have to increase the height of the opening somewhat. the doors are 8 footers but the opening is only 92". not that big of a deal at they are on the gable end and not loadbearing. just what i need another project. im figuring that i will need new sails even though i havent inspected them yet. oh another question-----what form of heat are you going to install in your "boathouse". gets mighty cold up north!

[Tim Gardner]

Kick, you're going to love a 19.  Much greater initial stability that allows OF's like ( you and ) me to scamper around above decks without too many WHOAAAA's.  The cabin is also much larger.

I also have a Hunter 23 ( for sale) that takes at least 2 people to step the mast, and a good hour and a half to rig from the trailer.  My 19 takes me, alone, 30 min and about 15 with help. 

Note: If you're not going to move the boat & trailer to and from the garage a lot, you can gain 6" of clearance by removing the tires & wheels & replacing with automotive dollies from Harbor freight.

TG

[kickingbug1]

  well i will be moving it to and from the garage everytime i sail. im pretty sure i will breaking out the saw. but i built the garage so i can change that if need be. it might fit though. i measured it and its pretty close. as to the dollies, already have a pair i got cheap. i usually take the wheels off during winter and put the trailer on the dollies. gotta save those sidewalls. ill keep everyone posted on my "mis adventures" if i do indeed trade up----as always thanks for the input---always can count on good advice here.

[crazycarl]

  ill keep everyone posted on my "mis adventures" if i do indeed trade up

hey!  i resemble that remark!





carl