Cp19 weight and trailer (axle) capacity question

[MacGyver]

When you weighed the boat and trailer, did you include the tongue weight? Either your truck or the trailers jack stand was holding up perhaps 300 pounds. My 20 foot Horizon has approximately 400 pounds on the tongue when attached to the truck.

You can put small drum brakes behind the 10 inch wheels. That's the way my Horizon came. It's got 13 inch wheels now because I switched over to install disk brakes on both axles. I was not happy with soaking the drum brakes in salt water.

What I did when I weighed it was first went up with truck and trailer, weighed in, then detached the trailer and weighed it.
Then went and got the boat, went back up, and pulled on with truck trailer and boat, and left the boat and trailer on the scale and took a weight.

that way all I was measuring was exactly what I wanted to, nothing extra. This was just the boat, with the hardware, no rigging or cushions. So really if you took off a few items, it would drop down to the 2000 lbs, which is probably pretty well what the hull structure weighs in at.  Note that the makers say "HULL DISPLACEMENT = ?insert number here?"
Not something like Hull with all the stuff, and engine, etc displaces =

What was the maker of those brakes? And how were they activated? hydraulic tongue? I am intrigued, and now ponder a dual axle switch with brakes, that would be NICE 

Not that the 19 is a bear, but it is always nice to have a little help slowing down mass. 

Mac

[CaptRon28]

What was the maker of those brakes? And how were they activated? hydraulic tongue? I am intrigued, and now ponder a dual axle switch with brakes, that would be NICE  

The last time I tried to rebuild the 7 inch drums, I'm pretty sure I got the parts from Etrailer.com and they were probably Dexter. The surge brake controller was UFP. I switched to 13 inch wheels and 10 inch Tiedown disk brakes not much later. I rebuilt the UFP controller to handle the disks. It is always a major hassle backing drum brakes into salt water. Over the years, I've converted 4 boat trailers to disks.

Twin axle trailers are safer, but remember that if one of the tires blows you may overload the other on that side.

[MacGyver]

CaptRon28, is that trailer you had the 7" drums on was it a 2 axle or single?

I am now in serious thought mode to convert the trailer to dual axle, and add brakes....... LOL

The ones I found on Etrailer were rated for 2000 or 2500 lbs..... so I m going to learn more about all of that before I set my mind....
Also, my truck is setup with electric brakes, I am thinking that is what I want to do because I can just disconnect before dunking, and that only happens 2 times a year right now, so worst case 4 or 6 times......

you relayed yours were UFP? what is that?

Thanks a bunch!
Mac

[Salty19]

I should qualified my comments more clearly.
Skip and I have the XL version which is a bit heavier with all SS hardware and a fiberglass roof liner. About 2200lbs.  Sorry about that.

Still, with gear, battery, motor, fuel, etc on board, even with a flimsy lightweight trailer you're still looking at 2700lbs *easily*.
Now since the tow vehicle will have , or rather should have, roughly 270lbs on the hitch, the trailer tires aren't taking the full load.
But take into account bumps and potholes, and excessive road heat (asphault can burn you in the summer), you want some margin of safetly.

Also...while looking for new tires, I noticed the load rating (A, B, C, D, E) amount varies based on not the rating, but the size tire.
A 14' load C might be stronger than a 10" load E.   At least that's what I'm finding.

I had a very scary experience the other day.  After returning from CLR, I got busy and didn't put our boat back in the water until this week.
Dunked it, motored off to the marina, and the wife picked me up later with the tow vehicle pulling an empty trailer.  She stated "The trailer feels wonky".
"Wonky", I said, "what do you mean".  "You'll see", she said.

The trailer was shaking like crazy, vibration, etc.  Get home (thankfully only a 5 mile drive)...the damn wheel bearing nut was loose (broken cotter pin)-ON BOTH SIDES!!!!.  Bearings are destroyed.  I pray my lucky stars this didn't explode or loose a wheel!  Whew!

So now I need bearings and tires just to get back on the road, but really am looking for another axle and brakes.

Based on some initial calls I've made, it might be cheaper to just get a new trailer and sell my old with new bearings and tires.  We'l see, have some more research to do...

[MacGyver]

Salty, did you use SS cotter pins?

Dont know if it really matters, but that is all I have ever used, since the metal the way it fatigues considering its alloys works differently than the regular cotter pins.

also, every time I do bearings, I use new pins, I figure the couple of times I adjust the bearings (removing the pins) is  a few fatigue cycles will be fine, but after bearings, I put new ones.

That is really crazy stuff to hear...... I am glad it wasnt worse. If you plan to selll that trailer, let me know, I might be interested since I still have not found parts to convert mine to a 2 axle..... no where have I found the damn 2nd axle carriers.......

This is honestly the first time I have ever heard that about cotter pins........looks like I might be talking to my trailer buddy next time I go by his place to see if he has heard of that.

Mac

[CaptRon28]

CaptRon28, is that trailer you had the 7" drums on was it a 2 axle or single?

The Horizon came with a 2 axle Magic Tilt with brakes on both. Original wheels were 10 inch, with 6 or 8 ply rated tires. Overloading was never an issue, but I got real tired of fixing the tiny drum brakes. Because the salt water tends to sit in the drums, it does a job on them. Most boat ramps do not have water hoses to flush them out. The hydraulic actuator on the tongue is a UFP. This is their website -

http://www.ufpnet.com/

Their stuff is sold at a number of stores, including Etrailer. I chose to rebuild their actuator because it was a lot cheaper than buying a new one. It had to be converted to handle disc brakes. If I had to buy one, I'd probably be leaning to TieDown Engineering.

Converting the Magic Tilt to 13 inch wheels and disc brakes was one of the best improvement I ever made to the boat.

[Salty19]

Macguyer, Truth be told, I never looked at it or messed with it.  The hubs are lubed via a zero so I've never tore them down--lubing via the zerk is more or less all I've done except basic tests for runout (tire spin, pull tire fore/aft/left/right to check freeplay).

One rim moves a good 1/4", if not a tad more.  The other maybe 1/8". There should be almost no discernible play, at least by hand feel.

I suspect all the tire problems on the way out to CLR caused them to fail. For a good 30 miles there was excessive vibration before the first blowout. I knew something was wrong, but a quick roadside check made it appear as if all was well (didn't check for free play, just looked at the tire and they appeared fine).  After the first tire was fixed, there was only a little vibration, and only a slight rumble the rest of the way to CLR and back home (about 700 miles).  I attributed the rumble to the road surface at the time, but I'm thinking the bearings were issues the entire time.

I'm not finding scraps of a castle nut cotter pin either (it was dark the other night so didn't get a good look)..I'm not really confident it even had pins.  I'm going to look at it tonight to better analyze what happened.

Doesn't matter, really...going to order new hubs shortly once I check, double check, and triple check measurements. I have to believe the bearings are gone being that surely they were not in correct contact with the races. Felt like the trailer was going to ignite and liftoff! 

Based on the prices I'm seeing, I don't know, it might be better just to buy a CP16 at a very good price and tow that around kingdom come instead of the much heavier 19 with double axles. OK, a guy can dream, but it's doable. Decisions, decisions...regardless, I gotta get the trailer fixed.

Nemo, as always...thanks for your wisdom.     What do you think it best, hydraulic or all electric?  I would still need a controller for either, correct?  I think the actuator receives an electrical signal from a controller, then the servo pushes a piston to move the hydraulic fluid to the caliper in the case of hydraulic.  Is my understanding correct?  I'm not doing surge brakes, too many hills on routes to good sailing to contend. 

[Mattlikesbikes]

Macguyer, Truth be told, I never looked at it or messed with it.  The hubs are lubed via a zero so I've never tore them down--lubing via the zerk is more or less all I've done except basic tests for runout (tire spin, pull tire fore/aft/left/right to check freeplay).

I don't trust bearing buddies or in the case of my new axle, which has an easy lube zerks at the end of the spindle that supposedly pushes the new grease up and out the front of the hub. I have read that if you put too much grease in you can blow the rear seal. Also without pulling the hub you really have no clue what is going on in there

It is always good practice to pull the hub check the bearings and races for wear and repack at least once a year.   I do this with my Utility trailer and so far so good. Hubs are so cheap around $30.00 I think I am going to keep a greased hub with the spare for longer trips next year.

On a side note all my parts have arrived and I just need to find some time to put it back together.

[nies]

I guarantee the cotter pins were not in the nuts ,there is no way two cotter pins brake or fall out , I am surprised the trailer got as far as it did..................I purchased a brand new trailer once and just decided to check the grease in the hubs...............zero grease....................nies

[Salty19]

I was able to look at them last night in good light.

There are no cotter pins, instead they are small bendable tangs which block rotation of the castle nut. tough to see, and in the dark the other night I didn't notice them.

One tang on one hub was broken and the nut loose (not horribly so), the other seemed fine. Of course I didn't see it in the first place as grease had covered the small tang.
Oddly enough, the side to side play on the one that was fine is gone.  A mystery indeed, there was a good 1/8" before. Strange.

Now I did look at the tires too.  Both are identical size, brand and make (just different load ratings, I took what I could when broken down on the side of the road).
One is elongated a little bit on the tread (curved a bit, like a motorcycle tire), the other was a flat surface.  No wonder why it shook like mad...the tires are not the same circumference.
I bet the tang recently broke, perhaps on the last 5 miles home from the ramp.  Like Nies said, no way it was broken for all the driving we did.  If it broke on the way out, I would imagine that wheel would of come off in a rather short period of time.

Gotta love trailers.  Inspect, inspect, inspect!!

[Mattlikesbikes]

Ok here is my latest issue my middle keel roller bracket is pretty bent up. I tried to straighten it out but so far it is a no go and I am causing
more and more metal fatigue each time I try to straighten it out.  The other brackets where bent out a little but easily straightened not like the one in the pic.

Do you guys think if I bolt an adjustable keel roller bracket to the frame it will support the weight of the boat and do I use 2 bolts or 4 bolts .
I am not sure if 4 bolts will fit and still let me adjust it to match the others.

My other options are getting a new bracket welded on $$$$ or using it as is.  I guess I could go with a bunk board also but I already bought all new rollers and pins.

   




 

[Mattlikesbikes]

I was able to bend the roller mount out a little better so I think I am going to go with that for now. I also found out that my winch post is almost rusted out on the bottom so I just ordered another one.
Hopefully I will get everything finished this weekend except the winch stand.

So far I have about $500 into the trailer rebuild. I still need to fix the tongue but I might wait until spring for that. I will only be trailing the boat 14 Miles home and then 14 miles back to the lake in the spring.  I will need to get it fixed because I would like to do a few trips next summer

[comfortably numb]

Just getting caught up on summer mail! Gosh, I have E rated tires but now I will be thinking twice about a long tow. Thanks for the heads up, Will check all in 2014.

[skip1930]

Can the original axle be unbolted and slid astern ... and an identical axle be bolted on as close as possible to it without an equalizer?

Keeping everything stock? And 'bolt able' and 'slide able'? Would the rubber 'chuck' when turning tight?

Divide the total weighs by 4 10 inch tires, rims, spindles, bearings, and two spring sets.

Speaking of winter projects ... spring sets, if one can still have access to their boats in storage, put the trailer on jack stand and drop the spring sets.

Strip everything out from under the trailer channels. C-Clamp the springs closed and prize the alignment bands off the springs.  Open up the spring packs, wire brush each spring leaf, bevel with a grinder the edges where the leafs rub together. Prime and paint them with several coats of your favorite brand of paint. Rustoleum? Here's where a heavy mil build of dry paint is worthy of consideration. In a week when it's all dry. Go to ACE and purchase some COPPER window screens. Cut to fit between the leafs and goop on an ungodly amount of axle grease or John Deere Slip Plate and C-clamp the spring packs closed and pound on the bands. The reason for the copper screens with or without lubricant is just that. A lubricant. Two leafs slide better over wearing copper wire as it flattens. If going overboard is an attractive thought, wrap the spring packs in leather and sew them up to limit the ingress of dirt. I did this on the trans mounted spring packs on my 1930 Ford Model 'A' and boy is the spring action phenomenal. And quiet.

skip.

I tired straps for guidance when I didn't know what I was doing to get the boat on the trailer ... a dismal failure.




One carry over from the Model 'T' to the Model 'A'. Amazing, go anywhere suspension, with mechanical pull rod brakes.