Finally mounted my SailPro; first impressions.

[brackish]

My point was when he called for the part he was put on indefinite hold rather than being able to get the part.  He knows customer service counts and the party called doesn't.

Maybe I'm confused, but sounded like the WM sales rep called their own warehouse, not the manufacturer.  And retailers do not like to stock repair parts because the inventory turns are way too low to make it economically feasible.  So they will "steal" from the new unit box, and charge it to the manufacturer as warranty replacement, if they remember to reorder it at all.  I think it is true, however, that the spring assist mount manufacturers won't sell parts that would be replaced by disassembling the unit.  They quote liability issues.

[BruceW]

Can/will one of you guys measure from the top of the transome down to the location of the top bolt in your motor mount? I have finagled my motor, lock, cable, etc on and at no point can I tilt the motor forward to get to the "click" for the prop to be stored out of the water. I think I might can do either:

a. raise the motor mount
b. put in a 2-3" shim between mount and boat to keep motor far enough out to tilt
c. try Skip's extender further out, but with the extra long shaft of Sailpro, that might be pushing it on the leverage vs. the mount.

Meanwhile, I have the motor in a good spot to be workable, and it should submerge enough for the swells, which I am going to verify sometime, no doubt. Because I want to make sure the motor can handle the swell, I'm hoping for b or c above to be the solution. However, I can see there are previous holes above where the mount is now, so I think this mount was relocated for a short shaft motor.

I'd like to optimize the solution for effectiveness; they are all somewhat of a pita, although Skip's way might be the least of that, since I wouldn't have to take the mount off to do it.

Thanks!

Bruce

[skip1930]

The factory mount on Comfort & Joy [CP-19] is good for 20 hp. Says so right on it.
If your hanging 2 to 7 hp on it is there plenty of 'safety' when it comes to leverage?

Don't take the mount off. I would not shim the mount out past the transom. Keep it tight to the transom and bolted through the hard points inside the transom.

In my pictures, you can see where the 'pull-up' handle was ground away for clearance on the stern rub rail in addition to 'hanging it there' for extra clearance so the O/B twist handle for the throttle won't rub on the transom when in the full down position.

Now the test with the thick wood block shows the concept works. The proper way to extend the mount 'out' is to cut four new swing arms. Calculating the length. I still have a second aluminum rudder blade for sawing out the blanks and drilling for the bolts and notching for the spring.

Should work well, should look factory, should be strong like bull.  "says so in the book."

skip.

[brackish]

Sure you are at the top spot on the mount lift?  Have you tried to turn the motor somewhat and catch the tilt lock on the motor? 

With my 25" sail pro, with the mount at the top lift position, and the motor at the first tilt position, and all crew off the boat, the motor clears the water by about two inches and the shift lever, steer tiller clear the top of the transom by about the same.

I'll measure for you next time up (prob. Monday).

On the 23 I would make extending the motor further from the transom the last option.  The 23 already has a tendency to squat stern down and if you push that weight further out it makes that condition worse.  Best is to minimize the weight with the lightest motor practical and keep it as close to the boat as possible.

Skip, I would look skeptically at that 20HP rating on the mount.  Most of these mounts were rated before the heavier electric start, alternator, four stroke outboards were in service.  I would only use the weight rating, not HP.  An old 20HP 2 stroke may weigh the same as a modern 8 HP four stroke.

[fried fish]

Hey Brack,
I am contemplating going for a larger size Tohatsu 9.8 four stroke, 25" shaft that weighs 92 lbs.
My 1996 tohatsu 8 hp is on its last leg.
My reason is this:
In my area of coastal NC in Southport around the moyth of the Cape Fear River we can see currents of 4.5 knots. That doesn't include any wind affect.
Hucthins recommends a minimum 8 HP in my conditions.
Your sailpro 6 hp motor pushes you at 5.2 knots with no current. This is is a 59 lb motor.
I know you referenced removing a 9.9 Suzuki from your boat. I'm guessing it was heavier than 92 lbs? Over 100?
Do you see this extra 33 lbs for the bigger motor affecting trim adversely?
So, if you have any thoughts or feedback for me not to go bigger ....I'm listening?
I'm also contemplating sailing the Keys and hopefully sailing to Bimini with a Gulf Stream current figured into the equation.
Thanks so much,
-fred-

[skip1930]

" Skip, I would look skeptically at that 20HP rating on the mount.  Most of these mounts were rated before the heavier electric start, alternator, four stroke outboards were in service.  I would only use the weight rating, not HP.  An old 20HP 2 stroke may weigh the same as a modern 8 HP four stroke. "

20 kilos, 44 lb. 2 stroke.

Ultimate Portability

Compact and lightweight in design, Mercury TwoStroke portables are ideal for inflatables, car toppers and small tinnies. With features like an integrated fuel tank, F-N-R and 6 trim positions, Mercury Portables are easy to handle on the water and off.
Overview
Specifications

Propshaft Rated Horsepower 5hp (3.7kw)
Max RPM at Full Throttle 4000-5000
Cylinder 1
Displacement   6.2 cu in (102cc)
Bore & Stroke (mm) 55mm 43mm
Cooling System Water-cooled
Ignition Capacitor discharge
Starting Manual
Gear Ratio 2.15:1
Gear Shift F-N-R
Steering Tiller  
Alternator System Optional 4amp
Trim Positions 6
Fuel Tank Integral 2.5litres & remote 12 litres
Weight 20kg
Shaft Length
15" (M)
20" (L)

Propeller Drive Splined rubber hub
Prop Selection (Pitch) 6" - 8"
Induction System Loop-charged (1 carb)
Oil Injection Pre-mix
SmartCraft Capabilities NO
Warranty** 3 + 2 = 5 years

*Weight specification is based on the lightest version so add a few lb.

20 hp 4 stroke 120 lb.
20 hp 2 stroke Question;  " Hi all .never had a 20hp 2 stroke before, are they very heavy?, can two old farts carry one, lol, mariner 20hp 2 stroke 1980's model"

Answer; "I can't answer on your specific model, but my 2str 20HP Yam weighs just shy of 50 kg.[110 lb] I can JUST lift it onto the transom on my own (but wouldn't do that every trip). Its not so much the weight as the awkwardness - two people would manage it OK - but I'd suggest a trolley if moving it more than a few metres on a regular basis."

Hummm about the same. 20 hp 2 cycle/20 hp 4 cycle 150~160 lb. But we are talking 44  to 60 lb.

Conclusion So if I can hang 150 lb 2 stroke [20 hp] on there in the old days I should be able to hang a 60 lb 4 stroke on there in the new days.

skip.  

[BruceW]

Thanks, guys, for quick responses!

Yes, I am sure I have the mount up all the way. I have tried the tilt option the way Brackish  previously described it, and it just doesn't all fit. Actually, it only fits with the cowl tilted so the arm is UP, which is the wrong way for the 4 stroke to be tilted.

Now, what I'm thinking is my mount is not in the same place yours is. I may not have explained it all that well, but I can see two holes higher up, as though those holes were the original top two bolt holes. What is currently the top was probably the bottom two holes, and two new ones were added.

My mount is rated for much more weight than I have on it; I think it is for 85 lbs, and my motor is about 60.

I feel my abilities are more suited to putting a shim in close to the boat, or raising the mount back to its original height. Both are going to have to wait for warmer weather, because where I am with the boat, I'll need to motor over to the dock, back her in, and wade in to remove the motor, put it on the dock, and then climb into that locker that will freak me out, and take the mount undone. I see a backing plate made of plywood there. I don't know if it is just bolted on, or if there is something sticking it to the hull. That could become an issue when I try to move the mount higher.

The advantage of the 2-3" shim is the motor will not be higher, and I might need that in the bigger swells (maybe not, since it's a 25" shaft).

The advantage of raising the mount is, well, the motor should tilt if that is the right height.

I will have to look to see if longer arms would even work. Not real sure I want to mess with that; don't have the material, expertise, etc.

Of course, I can just leave it and not tilt it. That will let crap get onto the prop, and the motor will stay down while I sail; maybe that last one isn't that big a deal.

Bruce

[brackish]

Hey Brack,
I am contemplating going for a larger size Tohatsu 9.8 four stroke, 25" shaft that weighs 92 lbs.
My 1996 tohatsu 8 hp is on its last leg.
My reason is this:
In my area of coastal NC in Southport around the moyth of the Cape Fear River we can see currents of 4.5 knots. That doesn't include any wind affect.
Hucthins recommends a minimum 8 HP in my conditions.
Your sailpro 6 hp motor pushes you at 5.2 knots with no current. This is is a 59 lb motor.
I know you referenced removing a 9.9 Suzuki from your boat. I'm guessing it was heavier than 92 lbs? Over 100?
Do you see this extra 33 lbs for the bigger motor affecting trim adversely?
So, if you have any thoughts or feedback for me not to go bigger ....I'm listening?
I'm also contemplating sailing the Keys and hopefully sailing to Bimini with a Gulf Stream current figured into the equation.


Thanks so much,
-fred-

Yes, the Suzuki was 104 lbs.  With a couple of people in the cockpit, I used to pull water up the scuppers.  No longer with the 59 lb. motor. 

I could live with the trim issues.  The real problem for me was when I traveled, I felt it necessary to take the motor off the mount and put it in the truck bed.  That required me to disconnect the truck from the trailer tongue, back around until the bed was under the motor, then with great difficulty I could horse it off the mount and lay it down in the truck bed, then reconnect the truck hitch to the trailer.  A real PITA.   Additionally, lifting it, even with the spring assist mount was very difficult and kept my back out of whack.  All of those problems solved with the 59 lb. motor

I can't speak to your tidal current issues.  I don't have those conditions and have never had them with this boat.  You may need the extra HP and with no experience I would not try to recommend against that.

[atrometer]

Love the sailpro - had one.  It is HIGH THRUST (special prop giving more torque).  Don't know, but guessing the sailpro probably gives hull speed at 1/2 or less throttle - max hp is wide open throttle to get the 6 hp.  I would check w/Tohatsu/dealer and get various torque ratings at various rpm, then decide.  My 2 hp Honda on my 16 gives hull speed about 1/2 - 2/3 throttle, no current/wind.

[MacGyver]

I have one mounted on my 19 using Spacers to space it off the transom some. I think they are spaced 1.5 inches using HDPE plastic.
That allows it to be one click from all the way up if turned with prop facing up. the prop facing left or right (one of the ways...) will allow the motor to sit vertical.

I will check to see if I have pictures, and if you compare the mount to yours, and need measurements to assist, I might be able to get some soon. The stern of the 19 and 23 are similar I think.... It might help.

It worked perfectly last year, and I sewed a motor cover that covers the tiller, so when it is turned just right and up it sits nicely.

Mac

[Shawn]

"In my area of coastal NC in Southport around the moyth of the Cape Fear River we can see currents of 4.5 knots. That doesn't include any wind affect.
Hucthins recommends a minimum 8 HP in my conditions.
Your sailpro 6 hp motor pushes you at 5.2 knots with no current. "

Remember though... your hull speed (6 knots) is speed through the water. If the water is not moving your water speed (6 knots) will be the same as your land speed. (6 knots)

If you have a 4.5 knot current and go to hull speed your water speed remains 6 knots. If you are going with the current your land speed will be 10.5 knots, if you are going against it your land speed with be 1.5 knots. In both cases your water speed remains 6 knots. More HP won't change this... you are already at hull speed.

Where more HP can make a difference is in fighting a headwind.

Shawn

[BruceW]

Thanks, McGuyver,

Any pictures or measurements would be helpful. I am wondering where to get the HDPE in thickness; I'll be checking that out while we wait for weather and time to make the adjustment.

[skip1930]

CP-19, full speed ahead [5000 rpm] 6.4 knots with GPS readout, driven by a 44 pond, 5 hp Mercury two cycle Out Board engine mounted on a 'made longer' stock motor mount rated for 20 hp, and [20 hp 2 cycle 110 lb.] ? weight. [over glass smooth water with no wind and no current.]

skip.

[brackish]

Can/will one of you guys measure from the top of the transome down to the location of the top bolt in your motor mount? I have finagled my motor, lock, cable, etc on and at no point can I tilt the motor forward to get to the "click" for the prop to be stored out of the water. I think I might can do either:

a. raise the motor mount
b. put in a 2-3" shim between mount and boat to keep motor far enough out to tilt
c. try Skip's extender further out, but with the extra long shaft of Sailpro, that might be pushing it on the leverage vs. the mount.

Meanwhile, I have the motor in a good spot to be workable, and it should submerge enough for the swells, which I am going to verify sometime, no doubt. Because I want to make sure the motor can handle the swell, I'm hoping for b or c above to be the solution. However, I can see there are previous holes above where the mount is now, so I think this mount was relocated for a short shaft motor.

I'd like to optimize the solution for effectiveness; they are all somewhat of a pita, although Skip's way might be the least of that, since I wouldn't have to take the mount off to do it.

Thanks!

Bruce

I tried to measure today and got 9-3/8" from the center of the bolt hole to the top of the rub rail on the transom on the inside bolt and about 1/8" less on the outside bolt.  I'm not sure I would use those dimensions, it was very difficult to be accurate with the boat in the water, leaning over the transom.  Additionally, if you mount is different from mine, it might not be relevant.  the mount does work with my sail pro.  As you can see I can use the first tilt position, the top mount position and put the motor a couple of inches out of the water.

[BruceW]

Thanks a bunch, Brackish.

I see your motor mount is a bit different in style from mine; good point about not using the numbers you provided.

One thing I can see for sure is the motor is much higher than mine in your top position.

I think maybe something I can do is to measure how much higher mine would be if I shifted the mount up to use the top two holes that were filled in when the PO lowered the mount.

That would give me a way to estimate how much higher my motor will go.

I also looked around the marina and saw a 21 foot boat with a 6 HP Yamaha, same type of mount I have, and he has a 2" thick spacer block of wood next to the transome to extend his motor outward. I think his is also higher mounted than mine, more like yours is. Could be I put the spacer in and raise the mount, just to make sure there is room back there for the ups and downs. We'll see when I use the boat more in the spring.

I'm still waiting for warmer weather to make any changes, and I will be able to test how the current setting works, and also to see what several inches higher would do to the range of settings for the motor.

Again, I appreciate the picture and the measurement.