Ballast?

[ddg23]

Do all Suncats come with two tubes of 60 pound Quikcrete tube sand?  I had one split open and I have the sand everywhere in the bottom of the boat.  Should I replace the broken bag.  Any other suggestions for the proper ballast in a Suncat?  Thanks for any feedback.  Dan

[Craig]

What? Never heard of such a thing! Am at a loss as to how that "ballast"got there. NOT standard! Suncats arrive with the proper ballast installed. Good to go "out of the box".

[bfelton]

Perhaps some one added extra ballast.  I am considering adding some, but not that form.  I may likely put two solid sided water containers next to the center board trunk, one on each side. It will be an experiment.

Bert Felton

[skip1930]

Ballast is not necessary, especially such a piddle amount of 120 lb on a 1,600 boat. It's only 14.3 gallons of water.
Never feel that on a CP Sun Cat.

skip.

Oh I guess I'm wrong capt_nemo. Isn't the 300 lb ballast the swing down centerboard? So 120 lb up top on the floor boards is really going to influence the tippy-ness? And as she tips over then the wind dumps out of the sail, thus righting the boat? Too much tip and your sailing out of control. Ease the sheet.
I don't know. Never sailed on a Sun Cat so just speaking out of my keester. I think that the 120 lb, IF located at the bottom end of the centerboard would make a big difference.

skip.

[capt_nemo]

Respectfully STRONGLY disagree.

I am definitely not surprised that a previous owner added additional ballast in a Sun Cat.

120 additional pounds of ballast increases the total ballast a full 40% of the original 300 pound ballast reported.

This additional ballast increases the ballast to displacement ratio from 20% to 28% for the 1,500 pound reported displacement. Not an insignificant increase indeed.

Like bfelton, I too am considering adding additional ballast to my Sun Cat. Just haven't got 'round to it yet. Bert, if you do add some, would appreciate some feedback as to how much and where?

Those of us who sail Sun Cats solo most of the time have experienced gusty moderate to high wind conditions which quickly overpower a full mainsail causing excessive heel and sometimes loss of rudder control forcing the boat to round up. After trying everything to change the shape of the main the only solution available is to tie in a reef and suffer a considerable degradation in sailing performance, especially with no headsail to provide drive. The difference between two Sun Cats sailing in gusty moderate to high winds, one sailed solo the other with 3 aboard, is nothing short of dramatic. I was forced to reef while the other Sun Cat just took the gusty high winds in stride, remained on her feet and quickly out distanced me, much to my chagrin!

So yes, I'm really interested in good ideas for adding additional ballast to Sun Cat "Frisky".

capt_nemo

[MacGyver]

I have to agree with Nemo,

I dont have a Suncat, but I have a few things I was told when understanding boats, construction and ballast versus sail planning.

In regards to ballast, the more you add, the more stable it will become within reason,  Nemo proves with his 3 man versus 1 man setup. The sails fight the ballast to help create forward movement (in short...) The more that the boat stays upright in a windy situation, the more speed it will get in relation to its hull speed, etc. I am skipping a lot of details to issue the point.
This action of not pushing over and dumping wind will keep the momentum up, making you sail in the direction you choose, at a speed un-achievable without the ballast. Ballast style boats are built with these ideas in mind (McGregors, Hunters, Catalina's, etc with ballast tanks)

Nemo is spot on with his figures, but also keep in mind, even a 1 percent gain is still a gain. It might just be too minute to notice

Secondly, all boats are made by man, designed by man, and used by man, that doesn't make the designs perfect. Each individual will sail a boat differently and therefore need differently on his or her boat. If you take the ballast out, try again after a few sails with some ballast, see how it makes it work for you, as you may better appreciate the extra weight.

When we go sailing, in our 19, we center the A/C unit and cooler, etc, all low as possible, and as close to center as we can. This year I am going to experiment and see what changes it makes, as some might be small, others might be pretty significant........

It is all relative to your experience and what you want to experience.

Mac

[Bob23]

I've never sailed a Suncat but I'll throw my 2 cents out there about adding ballast.
   My last boat was a Seapearl 21, total boat weight is about 600 pounds. Yeah, kinda light. I decided to add an anchor rode storage bucket consisting of a joint compound bucket placed under the foredeck. But the bucket was too short so I grabbed 6 red bricks to move the bucket up to the underside of the deck.
   Next time I sailed, I was surprised to find she pointed higher and seemed to punch through the chop a little better. Yup..you guessed it: Those 6 bricks actually changed the weight distribution of the boat and she was the better for it.
   Of course it's not the same as adding ballast to a Suncat, but you get the idea: Even a little added ballast put in the right place makes a difference.
Bob23

[cavie]

If you read up on Catboat sailing, you will learn of the benefits of added ballast as close to or forward of the mast as possible

[Craig]

Nothing wrong with additional ballast, especially if it is moveable! DDG23 was asking if the additional ballast was standard. In the Competitive Cat by Bill Welch there are several discussions of the effect of trim  on boatspeed and handling. Generally keeping weight out of the ends is a good idea but under certain conditions moving weight fore or aft can be advantageous. By the way although The CC is concerned primarily with racing, it is chock full of good stuff on handling your catboat and getting the most out of her. Good reading for any catboater!

[ddg23]

Thanks for all the good input.  I think I will try to sail without the ballast and see how she reacts.  I usually sail alone so some extra ballast might be a good thing for my situation.

[bfelton]

I just won 100 pounds of lead on ebay;  I'll let you know how it works out.

Bert Felton

[capt_nemo]

Bert,

Anxious to read your future comments on this "weighty" subject.

capt_nemo

[NateD]

I just won 100 pounds of lead on ebay;  I'll let you know how it works out.

Bert Felton

Just out of curiosity, what does shipping on 100 pounds of lead cost?

[bfelton]

It cost me $30.00.

Bert Felton