Keel damage

[Pamelina]

Hi All, After having my CP 16 in and out of the water several times I noticed water slowing seeping from the bottom front of the keel. We first tried some Marine tex but evidentially didn't go far enough under the keel. She's now been out for several months and finally dry. It can't be too bad because the carpet under the keel was never really wet, just a drop on my finger tips every day when I would check it. So how can we raise her off the trailer in order to inspect and repair the damage? Any advice will be really appreciated.

Pam

[MacGyver]

Skip has a popular way of lifting his 19, he uses a bottle jack with a 2 by 4 placed between it and the keel, The board probably extending past each side of the keep slightly to be on that hard chine.

The bunks could then be raised up to stable the boat, and then block the keel up so you can do the work so you arent relying on the bottle jack.


When you fix it, be sure to ground out the issue and chase out the problems.
Wet the area prior to filling with epoxy to provide a tie in.
Then fill with chopped glass and epoxy. The chopped glass can be made with scissors and any fiberglass, making a bunch of small cuttings to be mixed into the epoxy.
This will make a nice solid repair.
You can use 2 inch masking tape to hold the mixture in place and to push any air out. When cured, the 2 inch tape will peel off, then sand with 80 grit and finish with Interlux 2000 or Petit Protect (I prefer Interlux, not just because my marina sells it, but for its ease of use with the average person)

Paint with you favorite anti fouling

MacGyver

[Allure2sail]

Totally agree with MacGyver........use epoxy with chopped glass. I tried a similar repair on Allure with marine TeX, and it was a mistake. Ended up redoing it with epoxy and glass mat strands the next year. I found the marine TeX never "stuck" and peeled it off with my fingers the next year. My boat has a bronze flange and drain plug on the side of the keel so I can drain it every winter when it get's pulled. I try not to let water stay in the keel over the winter. If it freezes, it expands and could crack something. In the case of a 27 and 25's it can crack the floor in the bilge box. My boat had a crack in the floor of the bilge box because I believe the previous owner had not taken the time to drain it and it froze, expanded upward, and cracked the floor in the bilge box.
Good luck...
Bruce
Allure

[Pamelina]

Thanks Bruce and Mac, I'm still not quite clear how to raise the keel off the trailer. Maybe Skip will chime in with more details and maybe a photo?

Where are you when I need you Skip?!?

Thanks
Pam

[Smier]

This is how I lifted my Starwind 22 to repair the bunks, sorry its not the best picture.  First I built a stack of cinder blocks near the center of the hull just off to one side of the keel slightly.  Next, I placed some scrap 2x12 pieces on top of the cinder blocks to have a place to set up my floor jack.  You'll have to play around with how many blocks and boards to use, depending on the height of the hull from the ground.  Then I used a scrap piece of 4x4 a few feet long with a section of 2x8 on top of that to act as the lifting pad between my hull and the jack to spread out the load on the fiberglass hull.  The cinder blocks and board base provided a nice firm foundation to lift from, and I also like to have the floor jack as close to the hull as possible because it is less likely to roll over and fall.  Hope this helps! 

[skip1930]

O.K., Two things to look for in elevating the hull up and away from the trailer.
It would be a lot easier with those tiny Com Pac 16's then with my Com Pac 19.

~I have used two methods to raise the hull off the trailer. Come to think about it, both methods can be used.
~With a roll a round floor jack, loosen the 3/4 inch bolts and jack up the 2 inch x 2 inch supports holding the hull bunks.
~At some point the 2 x 2 won't be able to be lifted anymore.

~Does the trailer have rollers or a board running fore and aft with the keel? My way is to use the roller style trailer.
~Keep the bow pulled into the vee block. With jack stands, keep the trailer level port and starboard and fore and aft.
~Do not attempt raising the boat on 'rubber' tires. Nice and rock solid under pining's from jack stands.
~You need to use the space between the four rollers on the trailer to position the jack and 2 x 4 under the keel.
~I use a 2-1/2 ton floor jack on rollers and I slide the jack under the keel with a 10 inch long 2 x 4 . I guess at the balance point by trial and error.
~Note: The 10 inch long 2 x 4 runs fore and aft. Not port and starboard. It is all about spreading out the weight over that 10 inch 2 x 4 .
~Any longer then 10 inches I could not place the 2 x 4 between the rollers.

~O.K. once the balance point is found, jack up the boat from under the keel. Take a look at the vee block once in a while.
~Because the keel bunks have not been cut off the trailer [Like I did] the hull will need to be raised and extra 5 inches or so.
~No big deal.
~If it makes you feel better, a line can be attached from the stern cleats to the trailer as the hull is raised.
~Or long 2 x 4's can be placed under the rub rail to the ground as you go up.
~Or 6 inch x 6 inch wood blocks can be placed under the hull bunks.

Once you get the keel up in the air, grind clean to an absolutely clean surface, the area of the keel where the cracks are.
You tried Marine-Tex, O.K. grind all that off again. Make up about 1 quart of some epoxy. Mac can make suggestions. And use a roller and roll on a layer, fore and aft, port and starboard all across the bottom and up over the edges, covering all the cracks. Smooth it and paint it.

skip.

" MacGyver is right. use a bottle or scissor jack. A floor jack even with wheels will shift the boat over the trailer as it lifts at a angle not straight up. "

True. And what's wrong with that? The whole Com Pac-19 is balanced on the floor jack.  Move the boat around with the jack or put the trailer back on the ground once the vee block strap and lines are  free of the hull and move the trailer. Were talking just a few inches here. 

[Pamelina]

Hi Skip, Thanks for that. I do have the board under the keel instead of the rollers, so I guess it might be a little more difficult. I'll have to go out and look again now that I know what I have to figure out. It's raining now, so probably tomorrow.
Thanks
Pam

[Pacman]

The West System User Manual is a free publication that is loaded with great information.

Check out www.westsystem.com for details.

I also subscribe to their free publication titled Epoxyworks that features projects done by users of West Epoxy products.

Have fun.

[racer129]

Macgyver is right. use a bottle or scissor jack. A floor jack even with wheels will shift the boat over the trailer as it lifts at a angle not straight up.

[Smier]

Macgyver is right. use a bottle or scissor jack. A floor jack even with wheels will shift the boat over the trailer as it lifts at a angle not straight up.

I personally dislike bottle and scissor jacks, much easier to tip over while lifting than a floor jack because of their smaller footprint on the ground.  I also try and avoid lifting anything too high for this reason, even with a floor jack.  Whatever you choose to use be careful!

[Pamelina]

I personally dislike bottle and scissor jacks, much easier to tip over while lifting than a floor jack because of their smaller footprint on the ground.  I also try and avoid lifting anything too high for this reason, even with a floor jack.  Whatever you choose to use be careful!

You bet I will. The prospect of doing it is a bit scary and intimidating!

Pam

[Bob23]

Pam:
   I don't know how to do this but maybe you could Skype with someone here and they could talk you through it. Not saying your'e not capable but be careful. Being in construction, I've seen what gravity can do if it's left to it's own devices.
Bob23

[Pacman]

Just a simple tip:

As you raise the boat off the bunks, stuff boat cushions or extra life jackets between the bunks and the hull.

Then lower the boat onto the cushions and you will have a stable hull to work on.

That's how I did it and it worked fine.  No drama.

[Pamelina]

Well it's been awhile since I asked advise about removing my Com-pac 16 from the trailer. Kind of scared me, having no experience with jacks. So decided to go to the local boat yard. In the meantime I've been removing  as much glooped on paint as I can. A previous owner really did a terrible job. We eventually removed the guide boards to get a better look. Here is what we found after much scrapping:



This is a close up of an already repaired patch by a PO we uncovered.


We drilled some holes to see if anything was still wet in the lower portion of the keel and most, not all, were dry. This chunk concerned me the most with the rust around it. I put a paper towel under it and after 24 hours it hadn't even soaked the towel. It was just a small piece, but it was damp.


We're heading to the boat yard later today and plan to remove the rest of the paint and open and patch what we find. We've got Interlux 2000 to apply before we paint. Hope this won't become a nightmare.

Any advise from you all about the damage you can see will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Pamelina

[MacGyver]

Pamelina
I am on my phone and can't type much.......don't know why.....it just won't allow it

I can get this much out on here, DO NOT apply the 2000 on top of bottom paint t. Wish I could type more.....have more advice..... damn smart phones.....

Mac