how large a boat does one need to consider cruising?

[jthatcher]

I agree with both of you guys regarding caution on the "outside" leg of the trip..  the benefit that is on my side is that there is no time table set in stone for this trip.   i can wait for the weather to cooperate.    Nice to know that you might be interested in coming along Bob..  I won't plan on it at this point, knowing that you could be swamped with work at that time.. but let's keep that idea alive    It sure is fun to be looking ahead to summer as we prepare for the low temps that are forecast for the next week or so!     i saw your update on your trip to Florida after I posted the question here..  good to know that things worked out well...    i was hoping to get as far south as GA  during our spring break at the end of Feb. but it looks like that time will be devoted to making sure that the house is ready for us to move in May...  Better to spend time on that now so that I am free during the sailing season     jt

[Smier]

I found this to be an inspiration..   i was reading the duckworks news letter earlier in the week  and noticed a post there about a fellow from Nazareth PA  who shipped his boat  ( 15 1/2 feet)  to Finland and then spent 3 and a half months cruising Europe..  well, the story caught my eye for a number of reasons.   pretty small boat,  i used to live in Nazareth,  3 and  a half months!!

Wow, small world!  I grew up in Nazareth.  I moved to Easton 13 years ago, but my in-laws still have a large property in Nazareth, which is where I do the majority of my boat repairs, and where I keep one of my sailboats stored.  There must be something in the water...

My wife and I vacation with family near Westport Ontario, and last year took a trip to see the locks on the Rideau Canal system.  I hope to someday make a trip through the canals, the locks are really cool to watch.   we are also planning on making a voyage down the southern end of the Hudson River and around NYC at some point eventually.  Can you tell I'm getting jealous?!?!?

[jthatcher]

hi smier,
     we took a drive last weekend - back roads down to jim thorpe and then over to nazareth.  i have not been there for many years...  it was nice to drive through - we lived on mauch chunk st.   my mom served what was then the methodist church in town..  i had heard that it closed , and now is being used by a different congregation. 

it is great to hear that you also have the bug to travel in your boat.   i  i can't wait!    i am hoping to head up to maine in march to go to the maine boatbuilders show.    it has been a long time since i have attended it, and it is a bit of a trip for a weekend, but  i want to get there to talk with some folks and to pick up some items for the trip.    it has been a lot of fun beginning to plan - i am sure that i will learn a lot as i go.   i am looking forward to reporting here as i go.    next time we get down that way i will let you know..    maybe we could get together for tea and desert and sailing talk!  jt

[MKBLK]

Hey JT,

Thought I'd add my two cents re your forthcoming adventure. The following was posted on another thread, but I thought it would be of general interest to a Compac-o-naut that could meet you on the Hudson for the trip north.

If Bob23 is able to crew with JT up to the GW Bridge, I can pick Bob up at the Palisades Interstate Park Commission: Alpine Boat Basin & Picnic Area. A weekday is best as the park is jammed on weekends. Also, another Compac-o-naut can probably meet us there to help Jason with his trip up the Hudson.

How long via CP23 (figure on the motor + sail) from Tom's River to the GW bridge? The boat basin is about 3 miles north of the bridge. Can it be done on one looong June day? Remember, June 21st is the longest day of the year.

Marty K.

[jthatcher]

i agree, skip,  there are probably many different definitions of cruising..    in my case..  port to port definitely fits the bill.     i imagine  6 or so hours under sail or power, whichever makes the most sense on a given day..  the boat is a means of traveling from place to place and providing a  bed for the night..  the rest of the day?   visiting historic sites..  visiting coffee shops..   talking with local folks...   meeting other boaters...   enjoying sunsets in the cockpit with new friends.. 

  ok.   pretty idealistic eh?  like maybe it will never rain on the days that i have chosen to cruise       of course there will be days when it would be best to remain at anchor..   visiting a library.  visiting coffee shops..  museums..       it is all about attitude.  make the most of each day..  don't try to sail on lousy days..  make sure that i have good foul weather gear  and some great books to read...  appreciate  our country from the perspective of a waterman ... 

so..  the compac 23 sounds like a great boat to have..  a flicka would be fun..   a dana 24 would be a bit more luxurious..    a norsea 27 would be awesome..    but my 23 is paid for...   the new tohatsu will burn  a half gal  an hour when under power..  fits very nicely with our philosophy of low impact living!      jt


marty..    not sure that i will make that entire trip in one long day..  probably put in at the Atlantic highlands or anchor nearby at the end of the first day..    then on to new york!   we will keep in touch and  formulate a plan!   

[Eagleye]

JT,
Just one thought about traveling up the Hudson.  There is a tide all the way to Albany so be sure to have the tide charts so you can plan your stops to the museums and coffee shops when the tide is moving against you.
On one of our learning sails Suzie and I sailed for over an hour and traveled only a half mile.  There was only a 5-6 mph wind and I do believe we were going backwards at some points.  We finally had to start the motor because a huge ship was blowing his horn at us and we had to get out of the channel. 

Allen

[jthatcher]

good point, Allen.  i already bought a copy of the tide charts..  i was studying them last week...  lots of good info in there!   I agree that the effective time heading upstream will be limited..  leaves  plenty of time to visit along the way!     thanks for including that pic..  that is quite the ship - good idea to steer clear!   

also just ordered some items from duck works..    an anchor riding sail,   a sprayer that will enable me to take warm showers in the cockpit..  an extra winch handle..  and some  tape for fixing sails..     i have quite a shopping list to take along with me to the boat show in maine next month.   hamiliton marine has a store  next to the show.. and i imagine that they will be having some show specials.   yea!!!     

we missed you last weekend..   looking forward to getting together at some point during the summer.   jt

[skip1930]

It is interesting that the subject of large ships was brought up. I luv's them. In lake Michigan or The Bay of Green Bay an occasional ship is encountered. I give these guys a wide birth. I cast eyes upward to ascertain that the radar reflector is still perched atop the spreader, and sometimes try to radio these guys.

By the time I was a high school kid the parents had divested themselves of the schooner, the Star Boat, and had taken up houseboating by first renting, then buying houseboats to the tune of five houseboats before migrating South in a Grand Banks Trawler and a Cessna 310.

On the Eagle River and the Wisconsin River things were very calm with no large ships to contend with. We cruised from the dam with no lock up to Portage, Wisconsin where we ran out of water and pushed the houseboat across the sandbar, dropped the hook surrounded by a 1/4 mile of water in all directions and the boat would sit down into the sand. When the water was blown back in she rose and we walked her into about 18 inches of water and motored out with the 40 hp Johnson outboard cocked up till 3 foot was achieved.

Three more houseboats ratcheted through at Starved Rock Marina on the Illinois. One houseboat we motored down to New Orleans and back in 1969. On the Illinois River one encounters tow boats and trains of 13 or more barges. This was very common. These guys push water! The kid here once piloted a 38 foot houseboat with twin 383's/inboards-outboards across the wake of a tow boat more than 1/3 of a mile away after we passed each other only to be pulled into a complete 360 degree circle! Yep. Puckered my sphincter. The 'P's too.

A couple of rules for safe small boat boating around tow boats and barges on rivers.

~The marked channel guarantees 14 foot depth. Don't believe it. Sometimes the smaller boat can leave the channel. The tow boats can not.
~Tow boats and barges are deceptively speedy. More so then you think. Especially with a 3 to 4 knot downstream current.
~What the tow and barges displace in water, is pushed ahead of them.
~And what water is displaced rushes in behind them.
~Two tow boats passing each other move more water then they displace. Counter and confussed currents. Beware!
~Never enter into a lock with a tow boat or tow boat and her barges. Tow boats don't shut the screw down when locking through. Outboard in a test tank? Yep, your the 'Bobbee'.
~Commercial traffic has first locking. Tows are split, pushed through, barges tied off, tow locked back through for barges left behind. Takes all day and half the night.
~Some hazardous cargo like anhydrous ammonia are lock through without any other boats. Crew and lock personal down protective gear. Stay away from these barges when tied off.
~Motoring around waiting for a lock opening? Don't cross in front of the dam. Run her up on the beach and tie off to wait. Have lunch, walk the dog...
~Tow boats and barges take to the outside of a curve. Take the inside of the turn they can not make. Toot the horn accordingly.
~Barges sometimes brake loose from the tow or when tied off. Do not be where these things are going to drift or be blown to. Just a tap will sink a small boat.
~I forget the size...each barge is about 250 foot long, 110 foot wide and draws 13 foot. So say 20 barges displace 30,000 ton of water. The houseboat is only 4 ton.

On the river we like to dodge in behind a spit of land that creates a dead end lagoon 45 foot wide and 100 foot long and run her up onto the mud. Run the spring lines out, the gang way out, and spend the night. When a tow comes by the water pushed rushes into the lagoon and the boat rises up pulling hard on one spring line. The water 'hangs high' for five minutes and then departs driving the stern and out drives into the mud. The whole lagoon empties of water and the fish and turtles flop around till the houseboat is floating again. This goes on all day and all night. But it is far better being here, tucked away, then out in the river proper.

And that's cruising on the river.
We were heading up river from New Orleans and the lock master hands my dad a letter with a colorful Crayon drawing on the envelope of our houseboat, addressed to "Master Craig Weis on the Mississippi River, down stream of Alton, Illinois." My H.S. girlfriend Laurie Potts was bright enough to send her letter to me to a lock and dam combo where it waited for us to catch up to it. How cool was that? 

Here we are behind one of those dead end spits with rising and lowering water as per tow boat passing. Note gang plank.

Sennaca, Ill.,  Illinois. River. Same boat, old paint job. That tributary off to the right leads to the Fox River that flows over the tributary via a water bridge.

[jthatcher]

hi skip,
  thanks for sharing those experiences..  it sounds like you were born into a very cool family!     I went to college at Duquesne University in pittsburgh,  and i often sat up on the bluff, watching the towboats on the Mon..   I always thought that i would enjoy working on a tow boat..  in fact, i was just looking at pictures of them last evening..    at this point in life,  i don't think that i would want to be out on deck, handling heavy objects that could cause my back to spasm in an instant,  and i do not have the background to work in the engine room..but..   i think that i would do just fine in the kitchen..     i enjoy cooking and baking..  and i have periodically dreamed of living the life of a cook on a towboat..   28 days on and 28 days off..   i think that i could find something interesting to do on those 28 days off!   and, although i have no direct experience,   i can only imagine that   a good cook is an essential for ingredient for maintaining a contented crew..     hmm..   anyone know of any cook jobs on towboats??   jt

[Smier]

  Skip, I have to say that I love your stories and pictures!  I have 3 children, ages 9,7, and 5.  I hope that they will someday look back fondly at helping me fix up and sail my old boats.  Surprisingly enough, my 2 girls (7 & 5), seem to enjoy sailing the most.  My wife and son aren't completely sold on it just yet entirely.  One of the ideas my wife does like, is the idea of a leisurely paced sail down a portion of the Hudson, stopping along the way to explore various towns, and finishing up in NYC.
 My idea has been to tow the boat north and have a buddy or my inlaws bring my truck and trailer south and meet us a week or two later.  My problem is, for me sailing and the challenges faced is a vacation, I enjoy the adventure.  To my wife sailing is fun, but it borders on work, so if I want her to sail with me I have to make it fun an relaxing for her.  It's also one of the reasons I will be sticking with easily trailerable boats for the foreseeable future.
  Sorry, I just realized that I have once again derailed your thread...  I love  day dreaming about this stuff!

[jthatcher]

hey smier,
    we did not hear from you when we got together for dinner last month..  i hope that you saw the posting!   i think that we are going to try for a spring gathering  down in jersey.  i will be sure to let you know..   good to hear that you are interested in a sail on the hudson.   if all goes according to plan, i will be heading north sometime towards the end of june..   we are headed up to the maine boat builder's show this weekend..  going to meet bob there..   it has been over 13 years since i last attended the show.. of course, then it was a lot easier because i lived in NH!   it is actually a 3 fold  adventure..   take my wife to the show for her first visit..  meet Bob  and Bill thomas - a maine boat builder -  there..    and then get together and stay over night with some friends in brunswick..    and, if my wife's knee is up to it,  maybe a short hike as well      

[Smier]

Sorry JT, I missed the message somehow...  Hopefully next time, it'd be really cool to meet some of you guys finally.  What type of gathering are you guys thinking about?  I'll be watching for some reports on the show this weekend, sounds like fun!
  I used to travel for work, and I have crossed the Hudson via I-84, 287, and I-95 probably at least a thousand times when I had my own tractor trailer(We used to haul fly-ash from a coal fired power plant in Salem, Mass back to Pa sometimes 5 or 6 trips a week).  I was always fascinated by the sail boats traveling on the Hudson (a couple of times I actually saw some type of a tall ship on the Hudson) and started dreaming about how cool it would be to sail down thru the beautiful Hudson valley scenery and then past NYC.  My other dream trip, which would be great for a shoal draft boat, would be Tangier Island on the Chesapeake Bay.

[jthatcher]

interesting..  i can't say that i made the trip anywhere near 1000 times, but surely between a hundred and two hundred..   we traveled back and forth between nh and pa  constantly as i lived up there for over 16 years.  in fact,  i just made the trip two weeks ago..  and i still get excited to see what kind of boats or ships i might see from the 84 bridge!   

i sent for the NY canal guide  and they have a section in there on the hudson.. there are a lot of great things to see along the way. 

tangier island sounds like a whole lot of fun as well.   as a teacher, i can't complain about potential vacation time, but  it never coincides with the best time ( spring or fall) to be on the chesapeake..   i find jersey to be almost prohibitively hot in july and august..  i could not imagine being on the water down there during the summer!

i will be sure to let you know about any plans we make in the future..  the spring gathering will probably be a dinner get together..  but i am sure that bob will be planning another barnegat bay gathering during the summer as well..   

let me know if you happen to go down to nockamixon and need a crew.. if i can make it, i would be happy to go along..   jt

[Bob23]

Indeed, a Barnegat Bay Bash 2013 will be planned. Hopefully the Bay will not have been too damaged by Hurricane Sandy. I've seen the survey boats out checking out the ICW with sonor. There are still a lot of boats unaccounted for. And cars. And some homes or parts of homes.
Smier:
   We will be planning a Spring dinner down here in the South of NJ. During the winter, the faithful and brave attendees of the Barnegat Bay Bash 2012 version 2.0 met in PA for a fine dinner. We discussed a 2nd similiar get together down here...I'd like to pick a place on the water. The Dutchmans german restaurant is literally on the water and gives a good view of the Barnegat Lighthouse, now a recommisioned navigational aid.
Bob23...the chief thread drifter.

[MKBLK]

Count me and my 1st Mate in! On the water? Gee, I thought you might be rustle'n up some crabs 'n beer on Koinoia! But, The Dutchman sounds just fine... can't wait, salivating already! Mmmm... saurbraten mit kartofen salad und ein stein Heiniken, yum, yum.

Marty K.

And, to get back on thread, bigger is better - but isn't a ComPac 23 a "big" little boat? I'm sure Adagio is more than up to the task, the real question is: Is jt? (I'm sure he is)

And for BBB-2013 - How about on Talk Like a Pirate Day? Thursday, September 19th. Maybe we can do T,F,S,S! Eh mateys? Arrg!