Ida Sailor Rudder FULL SETUP

[MacGyver]

I am looking into the full deal with Ida Sailor.

Anyone have it where it has that SS shock thing and all that?
What is it like?
Does it really come up with a simple pull?
When you hook it onto the back, will it work with the original pintle connections? Will it work if they have the bushings in them?

Anything else to add for me to think about?

Thanks, lot of money to shell out.... but I am tired of locking and unlocking my rudder and all that mess.......

Mac

[deisher6]

Hello MacGyver:
From a C16 standpoint, yes to all.
regards charlie

[rdcvsmith]

YES to everything.
I will write more next week when I am on the computer (with iPad reading in bed right now!)
I bought the whole kit last year.
Love it, I'll write more later.
-Ray

[kickingbug1]

    hey jason why dont you just build your own foiled rudder----hell of a lot cheaper.

[MacGyver]

Steve,

That is the other option. And I will probably just foil my rudder anyway just because of the gains (and I am going to do that and post a DIY as well anyway, keeps me from doing housework too..... )
But what gets me is the bending over to raise and lower the rudder all the time while the boat sits in the water at the slip. It is really a chore.

My wife isn't strong enough to raise it to assist me, and frankly I cant blame her at all, it is a bit of a pain as it is.

That is why I had asked the question on here, if it isn't as easy as they say, and it wont be a significant change versus the cost difference.... then I will be doing what I planned to do anyway, which would be just foil my own rudder.

Jason

[skip1930]

I just have the standard IdaSalor rudder on the stern of my CP-19.
It's great! What, for 4 or 5 years now?

The rudder and the keel with my KEEL BOOT are equal so when I run aground it's with the protected keel.

I was so tired of having the seaweed pop up my rudder when leaving port that I drilled a hole clean through everthing and pinned it to stay down.
For me this was a much better option then to fight with all that rod and de-tent business.
It's just too darn hard to reach anything behind the stern pulpit on my CP-19. I sail in comfort.

skip.

[kickingbug1]

   ever looked at the rudder system on a suncat. has a long stainless arm with t shaped handle used to raise and lower the rudder.  im sure you could make one jason. if you do make two---one for the audrey j.

[Billy]

All of the new Com-Pacs have that SS arm.
if you go to the website & watch the Horizon Cat video, you can see it in action.

I recently had Hutchins make me a foiled rudder and they added the arm, for a little bit less than a IDA blade. But not too much less. Funny thing is, it is a completely different shape than the IDA. It tapers down on the trailing edge. It still makes a huge difference.

Here is a link to the 23 photo album. I couldn't get the specific image to post but it is the 7th image.
http://www.com-pacyachts.com/trailerable-cruisers/23-photogallery.html

Mac, One thing to consider, is that once you glass over your blade, or whatever you decide, the rudder will become much more buoyant, thus easier to lift.
In fact, many now have a problem keeping the rudder down. Hutchins SS arm solves this problem nicely.

[MacGyver]

Steve, If I get a good idea worked out I will give ya a call. I think I just came up with a good idea, going to go get the rest of my rudder out of storage in Bartelso and see what I can work out....... Prototype is in the works.

Billy, Thanks for posting the link, I checked that out and it is hard to see what is going on there.... and I cant get a copy of that pic saved to my computer to zoom in on it.
But you did remind me of something I somehow forgot...... It will be more buoyant and therefor will eliminate the issue for me as to its toughness.

But I guess I will announce it here.........I have a idea to prevent the props from chewing up the rudders if they kick up......

That Prototype is also IN THE WORKS.

Soon I should have some pictures up..... I am working a little on my shop and was commissioned by my wife to make some ornaments on my lathe for my mother in law since they were all lost in the wild fires.

If anyone has pics of the Rudder mod Billy speaks about, please post em. I may do a mod like it, especially if this prototype doesnt work out........

Mac

[Bob23]

Billy:
   Thanks for posting the link to the photo. I like the shape of the Hutchins blade and I notice the increase in the area forward of the pivot point, presumedly to help deal with the weather helm that us 23'ers have come to know and love.
   I'd have to admit that the control arm is probably more effective than just my downhaul, which works pretty good.
   Looking forward to your photos, mac.
bob23

[MacGyver]

I am still interested in hearing from others with the full setup about how it works.

Bob23, any chance of you having some photos of this option that you might be able to post?

I just got done drawing up my final drawing....... My mind is really working on this one. Ginger (Wife) came home for dinner and I told her about all of this and she said it all all cool except how can I change so that she can unlock the rudder........

Her arms are to short to reach the lock handle when over the transom........   That is why I am still interested (amongst other reasons) in the Ida Full setup...........

Mac

[Salty19]

We have one and love it.     It does sit on the existing mount and uses the same 5/16" (I used 8mm) bolts.
I wouldn't say it's a simple pull--takes a couple of times getting used to it.  You tug it hard then release pressure (you don't follow through like starting the outboard).  Same tug rudder up or down.  It's very high quality for sure. We also had on on our old 16..never sailed the CP19 without it!

I like that you can touch ground, the rudder will move up to clear the obstacle,then the air shock forces the rudder back down, and that you don't have to lean over the transom to raise it.
You can customize the length of the rudder, tiller, tiller height/shape, etc.  

Performance is excellent and the helm is just about as neutral as one could ever hope for, we can steer literally with a pinky.  Just a wee bit of weather helm unless flying a big drifter or the winds are blowing harder than usual.





Plenty of clearance for the road:

[Billy]

Here are some pics of my setup. I just went outside (in the dark) and took them. The flash kinda washes some of it out. I will try to take better pics here in the future during daylight.

The SS bar does flex enough so if a grounding occurs it will give way and the rudder can kick up. And it is long enough that you wont need to bend over the rail to raise it. However it does not ride in an inverted position like Saltys IDA though.

The SS bar has two notiches, one to keep it up (about mid way up the bar) and one to keep it down (at the top of the bar just under the handle). and it works great. When in the up poosition, the bottom notch goes on top, when in the down position, the top notch goes under.




Blade down


Blade up


Blade down



I wonder which blade works better. I used to have the old blade and it would wear me out. now I have this and it is almost too easy. Gerry Hutchins thought it wasnt that big of a deal and tried to talk me out of making the mod. Said he really never noticed the difference between the foil and flat blade.

It is not as fancy as the IDA Full Set up, but the new foil & SS bar only cost about as much as the IDA blade itself (plus my old blade). It is a really simple set up. Only reason I went with Hutchins instead of IDA was b/c they are in my back yard. Otherwise I might have gone w/ the IDA.

[MacGyver]

Thanks Salty19! That is what the wife needed to see and hear. She is leaning towards the Ida just because of that bronze handle issue.

Billy, That is some simple stuff! I am impressed with it, certainly not what I thought it would be.

Thank you very much to you both for the pictures, it makes things so much easier to think over as we weigh out the ideas.

Cant wait to hear what Ray says about his experiences as well.

Mac

[nicktulloh]

I have the full IDA setup and it works great.

Dropped right in.

Easy up, it ain't. The arm for the pull isn't ideal. I give it one big yank and maybe 1/2 the time it comes most of the way up. The other half, it hangs half way and I have to lean over and pull it up the rest of the way. At first, I couldn't believe it was so difficult and that I must have done something wrong, not a real stretch of logic. I've seen three others and they're mounted the same and really, there's only one way to mount it.

Night and day over stock.