Sailing Lessons?

[Ted]

In 1996 I was working in Sarajevo, Bosnia, and purchased a 26 foot sailboat out of a port in Split, Croatia. I learned a bit from a friend who also had a boat tied up in the same port. I never took a formal lesson and learned most of my sailing going back and forth between the islands in the Adriatic over the next two and a half years. We would drive over for a long weekend every other week or so and it was great.

After relocating to Florida a few years later, I knew I was going to buy another boat. The price of ownership here in the USA is a bit steeper, so I went with a Compac 16 on a trailer. I have it in a lake, tied up to a screw, and ready to go. I sail a few times a week. I have taken the boat over to the Indian River and sailed the intercoastal a few times, and once my wife and I took a five day cruise from the upper keys down about halfway.

I don't consider myself an expert sailor. Heck, I have pretty much only been on my own two boats and there is a lot I could learn. So my wife and I have been looking at sailing lessons. We are thinking something like the ASA courses, probably 101 and 103, but the cost for the two of us is more than I paid for my boat!

My questions to any of you who might have an opinion is this: Are these kind of lessons worth the cost? Would I learn enough to make the investment worthwhile?

[skip1930]

I don't think I'd buy lessons. Better to make a friend and go sailing with him/her on their boat and invite them to sail your boat. Many times. Gotta have a shake down cruise to tune up your boat then your skills. Best way to learn is to go sailing. Make a tic sheet of changes to the boat. Make doubly sure that the crew sails the boat as well. You never know when you may become incapacitated.

skip.

[carry-on]

Ted,
I did the 101 Basic Keelboat several years ago. I enjoyed it. With your experience, I don't think the 101 course is necessary. The course used American Sailing Assn. books which you can purchase. One is "Basic Keelboat" the other is "Sailing Fundamentals". (I know these titles should be underlined, but couldn't make it happen)
Sailing Fundamentals includes chapter review tests. The books could be used  for self paced learning. I think you could purchase both books for $50, much less cost than you and your wife taking the classes.
If your future plans include renting boats for cruising, the 103 stamp would be useful.
Have you maintained a log of your sailing experience. I think this type log is useful even if just used for your reflections and maybe helpful if you want to charter a boat.  
What do you mean "tied up to a screw"?  
Enjoy the sailing this fall.
       

[NateD]

A few years ago my wife decided that if I fell overboard or was injured she wanted to know how to sail the boat. While I enjoy teaching, we both agreed it would be better if someone else taught her to avoid potential emotional trauma on both sides. I decided to take ASA 101 with her to get some experience on a larger boat too (the largest I had been on was our CP16). You already have most of the practical sailing skills that are taught in the 101 class. If you also know your right of way rules and basic navigation aids, then the class won't have much to offer you (except a little experience on a different boat). Although if you do plan to charter in the future, having a couple of ASA classes would help show that you know what you are doing.

[wes]

Ted - my experience was a little different. I took the ASA 101 and 103 courses and am very glad I did. I felt they supplemented rather than replaced the on the water experience you would get from a friend or knowledgable fellow sailor. The courses are the "book learning" and the coaching from a friend or fellow sailor is the "street smarts". Without the courses you are likely to have some holes in your knowledge about navigation, rules of the road, Coast Guard safety requirements, boat terminology, etc. Without the friend or fellow sailor you are likely to have insufficient hands-on-sailing time to really get comfortable. Do both - you won't be sorry.

I'd also point out that you don't have to read very many posts on this forum to understand that if you ask two sailors the same question, you'll get three answers. Sailors tend to be opinionated. As an engineer, I value having an industry-accepted knowledge base (ie. ASA 101 and 103) from which to judge what I hear from my so-called friends  .

Wes

[kickingbug1]

    as a sailor who is basically self taught (i think my wife and i had a book way back when). i can tell you that i wished that i had a sailor friend when we started. recently a good friend took a novice sailor i know (you guys know who you are) for a ride in his cp16 on a windy day cruise. my wife and i sailed our 16 next to them most of the day. well suffice it to say that the expierenced sailor taught the novice more in that day then he could have learned in reading a number of books. at dinner that evening the four of us talked about the day. and the novice couldnt have said too often how valuable the day had been for him.

[Billy]

I work part time for "Flagship Sailing" in St. Petersburg, FL. We are one of the only ASA schools in FL that also do Instructor Certification. Some of our biggest cost are for the Actual ASA fees. I cannot speak of any other schools, but we do offer the same course w/out the actual ASA certifications. We could provide the course at cost, (Boat + Instructor fee + materials). But if you are interested in a certification you could get the certification(s) and your wife could just tag along, get the knowledge, w/out paying the fee to ASA, kind of a two for one deal. We offer almost every ASA course (at least everyone you would probably be interested in).

For me, I really don't see the benefit of the certification. Even if you ever do decide to charter other boats, experience will always out weigh the certifications. Any yahoo can take a two day course, and never sail again. Does that mean he knows more than an old Salt who has been living aboard for 20+ years?

I do feel that the knowledge is great to have, and much can be learned in the way of safe and confident sailing, that really only an experienced sailor/teacher can provide. Therefore I do recommend taking a class, but not so much for the actual "certification".

And if you mention my name I am sure we can also give you a nice discount.

And yes, if you have spent more than a week or two on a boat I think you are past BKB 101, but BCC 103 & BBC 104 will benefit you very much.
If you are interested, give us a call, here is a link to our website.

http://www.flagshipsailing.com/

when/if you call, be sure an mention my name, "Billy".

[HenryC]

While we're talking lessons, I'd like to once again renew my offer to teach celestial navigation, free of charge, to anyone within commuting range of Broward County, Florida.  My course notes are available for your inspection here on this website.  See my "CelNav" (chapters zero-eleven) in the Articles section.

[MacGyver]

Ted,

I and my wife are new to sailing this year 2012.
BUT, I have been a sailboat tech working on everything on a sailboat for around 14 years or so.
Been around boats for around 16 years.

I knew all of the concepts, and for the most parts the working capabilities, but not a clue as to the actual sailing of one.

We got a hold of a ton of books, And at some point I could list a few good ones, and read then went out on Nice days with nothing else to do that day so as to run around and do what we wanted.

No idiots to yell at you when you are tooling around and such, during the week days is preferable..... less traffic.

These guys on here give great advice too, and we used NAUTIC ED on the computer, and just did the free stuff......

That is my feeling of it, someone cant teach you the experience, you have to experience it to know. Getting a ride with others is a great way to push the envelope (THANKS RICH!) and help one get over some of the more scary issues with sailing.

Mac

[Ted]

Thanks! That's a boatload of good advice!

I do think that sailing with some others could help me out. I have really only sailed my two boats and been on one other for the "show and tell" the first time I went out. I think that confidence building is one reason why we are interested in lessons. We might consider renting a larger boat for a week sometime in the future... but I am not so sure.

Once again, thanks!

[Billy]

Ted, I am in Clearwater, and if you are interested, you could come sail with me anytime.....and I can show you what not to do

Seriously,
I am extending an open invitation. It is really good sailing here on the west coast of FL. After all, this is where each one of our boats were born!

[skip1930]

When the family returned from the U.K. and settled in Chicago for a while I statred 6th or 7th grade. Dad purchased a Penquin centerboard, sloop rigged, loose fitted main, cat boat type mast placement sail boat designed by Philip Rhodes.

Anyway dad had me out sailing around in Belmont Harbor most of a summer dodging other boats sitting on cans in Chicago. Finally he said, "See that [water inlet] crib out there? It's three miles out. Go sail around that and come back. And keep your damn life jacket on." "Yes sir.", said I. That's what I did. That's how I learned to sail.

skip.

[HenryC]

Here's how I learned.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/newsletter/febnewslett58.html#story3

[brackish]

Ted,

Don't know about the value of formal lessons, haven't taken any.  Some thoughts:

To date, I have not been asked for a certification to charter a boat.  My submitted resume has always been enough.  They are most interested in your "experience" in setting ground tackle, mooring and docking, particularly in a crowd.  That actually makes sense to me, hard to get in trouble in most charter cruising areas with the exception of overnight or temporary anchoring or docking.  That is actually one of the questions on their application, how many nights have you done that.

I have sailed more boats than I could list or even remember, owned four, over 45 years.  Despite that long experience, each new boat is a learning experience.  When I got my 23 I went through about six months of learning to sail it properly because of its unique characteristics.  I don't think you can learn that in a book or class, unless on your own boat.

I learned by owning and crewing for others while racing.  That is a good way to learn providing the racing skipper is a reasonable individual.  I've crewed for some who were not.

Now, in a shameless thread hijack can you comment on the sailing in Croatia.  We've been discussing the possibility of a Charter in the area.  What we've been told is that the sailing area is outstanding, the people are friendly and the shore costs are reasonable.

[Ted]

Wow - there is so much to think about in sailing Croatia!

My boat was tied up in Split, so that is where I based out of most of the time. There is lots to see and the sailing is pretty epic. I would probably split the sailing into four areas: north (toward Rijeka), central (Zadar and surrounding), Split, and the Dubrovnik area. Each one of these areas is a bit different in terms of what it offers.

In the northern area you have larger islands and some pretty well protected waters. If you look at Google maps you will see what I mean. The water between the islands is deep and you can sail without much fear with a deep keel. As you head south, toward Zadar, you will find many smaller islands and the Kornati's are incredible. You have to watch the chart a bit more in this area. Between Zadar and Split is, in my opinion, the most incredible. The islands are beautiful, there are plenty of places to tie up, and the views are spectacular. Split is an awesome city. We loved to "Mediterranean moor" on a small hammer head bay directly across from Split on the island of Solta (actually, sholta). If you search for "Necujam, Croatia" you will find it on Google maps. The northern head of the bay as it sticks into the island is awesome - check out the street view on the maps to see what I mean. As you head south from Split you can hit Dubrovnik. The city is incredible and you don't want to miss it. The sail down there isn't as epic as going north from Split, but you can tie up right at the foot of the medieval walls. The walk around town is second to none in all of Europe.

I can't recommend a charter service since I had my own boat.

You can get a "full pansion" guesthouse - overnight accommodations and meals, or you can just get a room for a night. I was there this past spring and prices weren't as cheap as when I was there (it was wartime, after all) but on par with US prices. Most of Europe is much more expensive. Keep in mind that in the summer seasons everything is full up.

There is a wind that blows down over the mountains, seemingly from nowhere, called a "bura" (pronounced "BOO-rah"). It has its own Wikipedia entry under "bora" and you don't want to be caught in it. It can start to blow in September. I almost lost my boat in one once - it was a horrible experience which I don't even like to recall. I was motor sailing when it hit and I was completely unaware, not paying close enough attention to the wind shadows. In the summer you should have no problems. Wind can drop pretty drastically - get a chart with average wind patterns and keep in mind that islands affect wind - a lot. I would probably go in mid spring, before the crowds came, but before the summer calms. You could show up there in July and have no wind for a full week or you could have a strong blow for the whole week. Wind is finicky and can clock you pretty quickly.

The tide is muted in the Adriatic. You have to remember it's there, but it's not like the Atlantic or Pacific.

Croatians are great sailors and great people. If I could retire to anywhere in the world it would be along the coast of Croatia. I hope you can make it.