Backstay vs aftstay

[NateD]

It was one of those weird epiphanies you get laying in bed when you can't sleep. So if the terminology on a boat is fore and aft, and you have a forestay, why is the "aftstay" called the backstay? Seems inconsistent.

[Billy]

and the side stays are not called stays.....

[NateD]

and the side stays are not called stays.....

Yeah, but that makes some sense. Things that support the mast from falling over on port and starboard are called one thing (shrouds), and things that keep the mast from falling over fore and aft are called another (stays).

[HenryC]

In the olden days, the standing rigging that supported a square-rigger's  masts from athwartship stresses were usually in pairs, or threes, for extra strength and support.  So it was logical to string "ratlines" across them to form rope ladders that would allow topmen to climb quickly aloft.  The standing rigging and the ratlines "shrouded" the masts from view, so it was natural to call them "shrouds".

[NateD]

In the olden days, the standing rigging that supported a square-rigger's  masts from athwartship stresses were usually in pairs, or threes, for extra strength and support.  So it was logical to string "ratlines" across them to form rope ladders that would allow topmen to climb quickly aloft.  The standing rigging and the ratlines "shrouded" the masts from view, so it was natural to call them "shrouds".

What were they called before that? Surely they had a name on smaller craft before multiple ones with ratlines created the "shrouding" effect.

[HenryC]

You got me there.

I know ratlines were in use as at least as far aback as the old cogs and tuns of the 1200s, probably before English as we know it was spoken in England.  (The official language of England in those days was the Norman French of the nobility, not the Anglo-Saxon of the rabble.)  These ship designs probably originated in Holland or Flanders. 

What we now call English was the dialect of the Thames valley district about that time, and it was made popular by the works of the London poet Geoffrey Chaucer, who wrote in his own native tongue, not the Latin of scholars or the French of the court.  There's no telling what shrouds were called back then--most seamen were illiterate and left no records!  I know the Spanish word for "shroud" ( the nautical meaning) is "obenque", but I have no idea what that means, or how it originated either, or what it might have meant in medieval Spanish.

Scholars spend lifetimes and build careers researching stuff like this.

PS.

I speak modern Spanish, but I am no expert on Spanish nautical terminology.  I had to look it up. From the article, I see the Spanish  for 'stay' is 'estaye', and the word for 'ratline' is 'meollar' or 'baibén'.  The rope ladders formed by the ratlines and and shrouds have their own name, 'flechadura".

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obenque

[Tim Gardner]

So if your berth is forward, and your shipmate's is aft, is his an afterberth?

[HenryC]

Absolutely.  And if he oversleeps and doesn't stand his watch he's a "berther".

[Bob23]

A somewhat unrelate related fact: Here in NJ we park in the driveway but drive on the Parkway.
Some would say I have my head up my aft but the truth is sometimes shrouded in mystery.
I wonder how ratlines would look on a 23?
Bob23

[MacGyver]

This is getting deep,
and despite my want to see this continue, I have to mention this bit of info from what we refer to them all as

Shrouds: Upper, mid, Lower shroud.
Forestay
Backstay

and the masts that have the other cables that dont go down to the deck, that are only run around on the mast: We call that a: "holy crap, this one is gonna be a M - $%&$!* to take down"

Double spreaders usually have all that extra pain in the A stuff.

The stuff between the shrouds like lines and crap, we call that: "WHO THE HELL DID THIS? AND WHY?!?!?"

Anyway, we charge by the hour......

Please continue with the shenanigans

Mac

[Bob23]

Thank you for clearing that up for us, Mac. Us 23ers have upper shrouds, aft and forward lower shrouds, forestay and backstay, not to be cofused with foreplay and backstab. I'll be watching this post closely to see what I can learn.
Bob23

[capt_nemo]

Curiosity brought me to this thread. I'll have to check that pesky critter at the doorway to my desktop when it rears its ugly head again.

Gotta go now - other intriguing Nautical topics beckon.

capt_nemo

[HenryC]

I once crewed on an Express 37 that had "running backstays" .  You get extra credit points if you can describe what they are without looking them up.

[Michael]

Not sure if this topic is still "running" but maybe it deserves another round?

A "running backstay" requires the guy casting off the leeward one and deploying the windward one to be "running" across a wide cockpit full of other sometimes "running" crew.

M

[capt_nemo]

Michael,

I'm afraid that's NOT the way they work!

capt_nemo