Questions regarding rudder and outboard mount

[Welsh Dragon Forge]

As a new CP19 owner, I am looking at various parts to understand them and think about what needs attention.

One thing on my mind today is the outboard mount and a missing piece where the arrow is pointing in the picture. I plan on removing the entire assembly, cleaning it and fixing it. What are your thoughts on replacing the missing piece with a little segment of PVC pipe and in fact replacing all the remaining parts like it?

In the other picture, the rudder has this strange piece instead of a nut on the end of a bolt. Is it like some lever to remove the bolt for removal of the lower part of the rudder? Also, any suggestions on cleaning this entire rudder. It's looking pretty rugged. I would like to make it look really nice. What is the material? What kind of paint should be used?

Thanks!

[wes]

Welsh - is that a Garelick mount? On mine, the springs are inboard of the brackets, not outboard. Garelick does not sell replacement parts, but they do offer a factory rebuild service if you ship them your mount. The springs are under tremendous tension - I'd be concerned that standard PVC may be too soft for this application.

The lever on the rudder is to tighten when you're ready to sail, and to loosen when you're ready to swing the rudder up when docked or for trailering. It holds the rudder tight in the downward position under sail, but allows it to kick up if you run aground.

I removed my rudder mounting parts (pintle and gudgeon) and took them to a local powder coating shop. For $75 they sandblasted the old paint off, and powder coated all the parts black. A permanent fix, I hope - probably never need to paint again. Try and find a shop that's familiar with cast aluminum out-gassing during powder coating. It leads to bubbles in the finish, but can be controlled by using a special primer and limiting the baking temperature.

We'd

[Welsh Dragon Forge]

I am not sure what brand of mount it is. I'm wondering why there are so many holes drilled in the base and why there aren't washers on each side of the springs. Notice the very rough cut on the side of the base? Why is that like that?

[skip1930]

One; the spring has a black bushing inside of it to center it up on the bolt. The spring is on the correct side of the bar. I'll buy that. Look at the pictures in a West Marine catalog.

Two; the threaded fastener and washer under a brass 'handle' that is bent outward so one can grip this foolish thing when the rudder kicks up or when the rudder needs to be put back down.
It is stock and normal on the Com Pac line. I hate it.

I never liked this arrangement. It is too hard to reach, too hard to apply a force great enough to lock the rudder into position. So I drilled a hole clean through everything and pinned it with a clevis pin and a keeper on a lanyard. My rudder will not kick up any more. It is equal to depth of the keel so why kick up?

To drop the 6mm thick aluminium flat blade rudder out from the head assembly it is usually a bugger to drive the bolt and bolt head out of the other side of the rudder's cast aluminium head.
A lot of heat usually does the trick. That and some Kroil penetrating oil. Plus a day or two to soak.

To remove the cast aluminium rudder's head from the fiberglass transom you'll need four small vise grips, one on each nut after you squirm your way to the transom from the inside. Once snapped on the 1/4 nuts with the vise grip pushed flat against the transom, spin-off the bolts from the out side [you will hear each bolt and vise grip and nut fall into the bilge as the bolts un-thread from the nuts].

Than it's a matter of heating with a paint stripping gun to around 160 deg F. and beating the casting off the transom with a rubber mallet. The factory used 3-M 5200 around each 1/4-20 ss bolt. So it is basically glued on as well as bolted on. It may take a whole day of persuasion to remove the casting.

Mine? I vapor blasted [glass beads], washed with a conversion coat for aluminium, de-gassed, powdercoated with hammertone grey polyester~epoxy, cured and reassembled with an IdaSailor foiled phenolic blade with an aluminium head inserted into the factory's rudder casting and pinned.

And while your at it, drill the casting for 1/2 inch O/S dia bronze bushings, shoulder to shoulder, and reassemble. The factory puts a plastic insert in the bore but that usually goes to heck.

skip.

Motor mount adjusted for two inch back and two inch more down. This winter, the horizontial flat bars will be remade longer as well.


For full up the bar needed to be ground away so it can clear the rub rail.










The bolt in the picture I replaced with a pin and laynard. No tools needed to remove.

[Welsh Dragon Forge]

Thanks for the pictures. They are very helpful and will use them as a goal for my stuff. I notice some other things in those pictures that I will ask about later. It appears I have an older Garelick mount that needs some attention for the day before I stick my new motor on there. It only has two positions unlike the new ones but I saw it work well when I bought it with a similar motor.

[Keith]

Hey Welsh,

My '87 CP19 had the same motor mount as yours.  I replaced it with the new model mount because of various minor corrosion issues and because I wasn't super confident in it.  New mount seems much more robust and is easier to raise and lower.  Easy swap if needed...all bolt holes lined up.

Keith

[Salty19]

Keith--Now that's funny!  Easy motor mount swap on a CP19?  Right!!!!

I assume you used a gnome or "Tatoo" from Fantasy Island to crawl into the locker to get at the nuts!
I don't think my wife would forgive me if I sent her down there.  I wouldn't be able to fit without getting stuck.

Aside from access to the inside bolts, yep it's easy. 

[MacGyver]

Salty,
you need to work with me for a day.........the 19 is like a mouse in a semi truck.......plenty of room

We had our smallest guy in a J105 not long ago and he got stuck. Ended up ripping his pants yanking him back out.
Just block the back of the trailer before muscling back there and get er done! Lol

Find a mount close built to that one on bolt pattern and replace it. Easier than fixing em up by cobbling them together.

Mac

[Salty19]

Hehehe...at 6'2" and 210lbs and being an office bound weenie approaching middle age, I am about guaranteed to get stuck back there. I'm not sure I could even get in there in the first place.

On the 16 the space is tighter but it's flat all the way from the cabin aft, so one cam shimmy like a worm back there, and as you said, get r done. On the 19 the half bulkhead would make it tough to slip back through the cockpit. Crawling into the locker doesn't seem easy either.

Maybe I'm just getting old!

[Keith]

Keith--Now that's funny!  Easy motor mount swap on a CP19?  Right!!!!

I assume you used a gnome or "Tatoo" from Fantasy Island to crawl into the locker to get at the nuts!
I don't think my wife would forgive me if I sent her down there.  I wouldn't be able to fit without getting stuck.

Aside from access to the inside bolts, yep it's easy. 

It's not bad.  I'm 6' 2", ~200lbs, and on the doorstep of fifty and have spent plenty of time back in the bowels of my 19.  Actually had to replace a rotted wood core from under the aft starboard cleat and stanchion...did all the work from inside the locker.  Just have to wiggle in on your back...once over the half bulkhead back scraper, it's just fine.  Can stage all your tools on the cockpit seat and reach out of the locker to get what you need.

Cheers,

Keith

[fawsr]

Well I'm 5'11 & 230. I got myself wedged in back there when I pulled all the stuff off to work on the transom. I thought I was never gonna get back out! Anyway, come time to put all the stuff back on I convinced the wife to crawl in there ... but she's not too handy with tools so I ended up back in there a second time. Tough on an old man ... but doable.

[skip1930]

" I don't think my wife would forgive me if I sent her down there.  I wouldn't be able to fit without getting stuck.

Aside from access to the inside bolts, yep it's easy. "

Well at 61 years and 5'-10 and 203 lb I started by laying on my back in the port side quarter birth and skinny into the lazzerette and beyond into the abyss until I can reach those little 'O nuts and washers. Yes it can be done.

Hint: Just a smear of super glue under the washer glues the washer to the nut when getting the nut started on the bolt. You drop the washer, kiss it good by.

When I worked at Palmer Johnson Yachts a line tied around the work boots and a soft leather helmet and tiny face plate that conforms to the wedge that needed to be welded on both the inside and outside on the forward deck was necessary. Crank your head sideways and lay your ear on the deck. That was much tighter then this simple transom job. Additionally hung by your feet and lowed into a 26" x 26" x 54" full weld dead space makes one wonder about the Italian designers.

Life is a gas! skip.

[crazycarl]

dragon,

yes, i'll call you dragon.  sounds strong, venomous, legendary.  anyway...

i had the same problem with my outboard bracket.  the o/b would wobble back and forth so i purchased bronze bushings from amazon and nylon washers and new s.s hardware from the local ace.  i took the whole thing off the boat (came right off without a problem, old sealant)  clamped it to a workbench, and disassembled it.  i suggest taking reference pics before taking it apart.  wish i had!

the original aluminum bolts were worn.  i replaced the aluminum sleeves with bronze to negate the whole s.s./aluminum mess.  the nylon washers are new.


here's pic of the bracket bacl on the boat...

[skip1930]

Yep, that will work well.
Aluminium bolts? Whom uses Aluminium bolts? Bad choice from the mf'g.
Bronze bolts are cool and so are stainless steel.

skip.

[Welsh Dragon Forge]

Thanks Carl. I will look for the same sleeves you have. For some reason the ones that came with mine are split into a left and right half and don't look secure. That's probably why the top one fell out. I have the holiday weekend soon so that is when I will do a complete teardown and rebuild. I already took the reference pictures.