Motor Size to Sail on Lake Erie

[JJ]

OK,  I have read all the posts on motor sizes, weights and shaft lengths and I'm still confused.  It is time to get a motor! 

Last week the wife and I were sailing on an inland lake and the wind picked up to 20-30 mph.  Two foot waves with white caps.  It was a great ride until it was time to head into the ramp.  My 16 foot Compact was hard to steer and the trolling motor wouldn't even budge the boat.  After fighting the waves and wind I was finally towed in by a power boat.  I have been looking at outboards and have looked at the postings on this web site for motor requirements for the 16.  Since the boat ramp for Lake Erie is just around the corner from my house and I would like to sail on LE, I need a motor that will get me into the marina and handle the stringent waves and currents that some time occur on LE.  I have looked at the Mercury 4hp long shaft and feel that would be a good fit.  I like the fact that it has a FNR rather than turning it 360 degrees for reverse.   But the weight is of concern at 59 pounds.  I have also looked at the Yamaha 4 and 6 hp which both weigh in at 60 pounds.  The 4 hp Yamaha is the same price as the Merc and 6 hp Yamaha is $200. more. Can anyone give me advice/suggestions for a motor to purchase for LE?  Thanks in advance for any help you may provide.

JJ

PS  We are also thinking about getting a 19' down the way.

[Billy]

4 hp is the max I would put on a 16. I used to have a 2.5 yamaha that pushed my 19 in the gulf of mexico just fine. Only problem was it was a 15" shaft and the prop would come out of the water when I went forward. However, it would have been great on a 16. I now have the tohatsu sail pro 6 hp 25" shaft and that is way too big for a 16. Almost too big for my 19.

Any gas engine should be more than adequate compared to a trolling motor, but I think you'll be happy with the 4hp yamaha, which will also be fine on a 19. Just be sure and use a stabilizer. Those jets on the yamaha clog up really quick.

PS. Have you checked out the electric torpedo?

[Bob23]

Well jj:
  If you're gonna take the motor with you when you get a 19, why don't you get a 6 hp? Should be more than enough for either boat, especially the 16. My general thought is it's better to have a bit too much hp than not enough.
  If weight is an issue, why not look for a good used 2 stroke unless your dead set against a used motor or a 2 stroke or both! I have a 1988 8 hp Nissan 2 stroke for my 23 and it's more than enough power. However, occasionally I'll need that extra power when going into an opposing tide and wind. (I sail in Barnegat Bay, NJ which is tidal.)
  Have you looked at the Torqueedo electric outboards? Not your grandmas trolling motors but they're a bit pricey. It must be nice to not mix fuel.
  Hope this helps,
bob23

[capt_nemo]

The new 4 stroke Yamaha 4 pushes my Sun Cat at hull speed around half throttle. Take another look at it despite the 60+ pounds ESPECIALLY since you are looking at a 19. Should serve you quite well on the 19 also! If the difference is only $200 dollars for the 6 HP get it, since it weighs the same (has the same housing and motor as 4 but different carbureation). The price difference was far greater in my neck of the woods when I bought my outboard. Just some food for thought.

capt_nemo

[MacGyver]

We have a 4hp mariner 2 stroke on our 19 and we run fast ans smooth in pretty rough water at a awesome pace.
Of course the engine we have is like a 1989 or something made by Yamaha. SO tuff stuff

If weight is a issue, I would just replace the dinky washers on the inside of the transom for that mount with fender washers. I am doubtful that it would be a issue, but I know they only used small washers that barely stick out from behind the nuts on ours...... A job I will undertake this winter for sure. (Especially our swim ladder......)

If you can go to the 6 hp,, I would go that route. especially if only like a pound or 2 difference, more power is always worth it.

Our next motor will be a 6 hp probably, not saying the 4 hp isnt enough, cause it is, but 4 stroke isnt as tourquey as the 2 stroke.

What kind of motor mount do you have on there?

Jason

[JBC]

I think an outboard motor with FNR is worth the extra weight.  I just got off Lake Dillon in CO with my 16, and used my 2.5 Suzuki 4 stroke on the boat, which pushes the 16 wonderfully, even at 9000' elevation, and in strong winds.  But steering the 16 in and out of the ramp/dock areas, especially when the wind is up, isn't easy with a motor that has to be turned 180 degrees for reverse, continuously aimed parallel with the rudder when in reverse, because the motor must swivel easily and can just as easily swing another direction when not being guided, and kept running when shifting back and forth from neutral/forward when going in reverse.  This is a motor that also requires filling with gas on the water sometimes because of its internal tank (which on my motor holds about two cups it seems!).  That's a lot of fun in rough conditions.  Still, I love the motor because it runs flawlessly, starts on the first pull just about every time, even after long spells in the garage, and is so lightweight at 31 lbs. 

That said, I sometimes sail with my heavier 5 hp Mercury 4 stroke on the 16, simply because it is so much more convenient to have all the gears plus an external tank which gives it an endless supply of gas for my typical day on the water.  When not using 5 hp on my 16, I use it on heavier boats.  So, while I can't speak to LE conditions, I think a 4 or 5 hp would be a better bet than a smaller outboard, especially if it's likely going to migrate onto a heavier boat anyway.  And I share the recommendations made by others for a long shaft, only because the prop/water intake will stay in the water better when moving about toward the front of the boat, or in rough conditions.

[Rob]

I have a 3.3 HP 2 stroke Mercury on mine that works great . Yes there are some disadvantages with it Rev is swinging the motor around and the small gas tank but it works so well. Swinging the motor around with the rudder up gives great control backing out of my slip on Lake Mendota and has enough power for that lake . Ive try-ed a 4 hp 4 stroke with rev and it didn't work as well backing out of the slip also the weight of the motor really was a problem lowering the end of the co pit drain .Ive also had my boat on Lake Superior with the little 3.3 outboard and it worked with no problems . For fueling underway I use a gas can and siphon hose with a hand pump on it to top off the tank .Hope this helps buying the wrong motor can be expensive and we don't sail Com Pacs 16s for speed  .  Rob

[deisher6]

I use a 5 HP Mercury 2 cycle with the internal tank, long shaft and reverse.  It came with our '89 C16 and was probably original to the boat.  I was skeptical, it was advertised as having 'good compression' when listed on eBay.  It started on the second pull.  I rebuilt the water pump just to be safe.  It starts on 1-3 pulls.  I would guess that the range on the internal tank would be over 20 miles.

I motor with the stock motor mount in the up position.  The exhaust does come out of the water when I go forward, I try not to stay there to long.  When the motor is up tilted out of the water to reduce drag, the pull rope is almost fowling the main sheet.  I have been turning the motor to the side to avoid the mainsheet.  However today I am going to modify the motor mount so that is fixed slightly down and back a couple of inches.  I believe that Skip modified his motor mount for the same reason.

The C16 is the wettest boat that I have been on when powering into chop. 
Exciting but very wet.

regards charlie

[mikew]

JJ, I run a Yamaha 4hp/4 cy outboard on my 1983 cp-16. It has FNR and both internal and external fuel tanks. It weights about 48 lbs and can
get the 16 to hull speed at about 1/4 to 1/3 throttle, leaving room for heavy weather.  The model is a 2001 and Yamaha just switched to a
4 hp/6hp block at about 60 lbs. I guess I say all this because you may be able to find a older model Yamaha, maybe a left over,
that has the lighter 4hp block.
Even at 48 lbs I added larger fender washers to the inside motor mount bolts for piece of mind. Maybe give Compac in Clearwater a call to see if they recommend  running a 60lb OB on the transom. If I was looking for a new motor I would probably go with the 3.5 hp/ 4 cy. LS motor made by
Mercury/Nissian/Tohatsu. They weigh about 43 lbs and have FN shift.

Mike  

[TimW]

After experimenting a bit with an old electric trolling motor (way underpowered) and a crappy 2.0 HP 2-stroke I ended up buying the 6hp
Tohatsu 4 stroke  short shaft -primarily because there was very little difference price or weight wise between it and a lower HP motor. It's possible a
long shaft may have been better - but what I have is certainly fine.  This said, if I had it to do over I just might go with the 3hp? equivalent Torquedo
instead (I know, another case of Torquedo envy)  just because I find then idea of going gasless with a much lighter motor so appealing.
TimW

[JJ]

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments!  

Jason, I have an adjustable two-position motor mount and will add fender washers on the inside of the transom per your recommendation.   I'm just wondering if the motor mount will hold the weight of the motor.

I did call Compac and the person that I talked to said that the 2.5 was his recommendation for the 16.

At this time I am leaning more towards the 6 hp Yamaha LS. Haven't actually looked at the Yammies as the closest dealer is 50 miles away on the other side of Cleveland.  I have looked at the Mercs at the dealer as it is several miles down the road from where I live.  All I know is that whatever I get it has to be reliable and able to get us back home safely.

JJ

[Darko]

Good luck,
I just wanted to add that I just bought a new motor last week.  I Was running and old 4.5 evenrude 2stroke long (50 lbs) and it was getting tired. At WFO it went 5.1 knots.  I wanted ext fuel tank and FNR. so I was going to get a 4hp merc. Well, the 6hp was identical size and weight 55lbs  (a little heavy) but  I went with that because I intend to bring the motor with me when I purchase a larger Compac hopefully.   I must say the 6hp got to 5 knots quick at  just under1/2 throttle but due to that old hull speed stuff, the next 1/2 of the throttle only brought it to only 6.2 knots.  However, when run at  half throttle the 6hp 4 stroke was amazingly fuel efficient. I just ran it many hours probably around 6 hours and used around 1/2 a gallon!  I go through channels and guts with severe currents so 2-3hp is out of the question for me.  Many people who are running smaller motors probably don't have those issues or follow the tides better.  The extra HP will get you through a channel when the water is rushing in at 4knots.   If you try that with a trolling motor for example you would spin around and smash against the rocks.  On the other hand,  I went through the other day with the current, with the motor at WFO,  and got to over 9 knots!    Anyway, seeing how half the throttle only gives you around 1 mph more you could save money and buy the 4-5hp models.
Dan

[JBC]

Rob, just a quick note to say "thanks" for the reminder to keep the rudder up when swinging around a small outboard to go in reverse.  Great tip!  I used my 2.5 for a while on a boat with a non-pivoting rudder, so had to constantly work the two in parallel when backing out of the slip, a pain.  But being able to keep the rudder up until ready to go forward makes the whole process much easier!

Jett

[Cevin c Taylor]

Where do you sail at on Lake Erie?  My son and I went out on Erie for the first time a couple of weekends ago, launching from Sterling State Park in Monroe, Michigan.  I'm a pretty new sailor, and I was a bit overcautious probably.  We only put up the main, and reefed it, though the wind was probably only 10 mph or so.  It was as much to get the hang of reefing as for safety.  We had a lot of fun spending time together.  It was hard making any headway to windward with just the main.  I thought about putting it up, but my son really liked sitting on the forward deck and reading, and the jib would have interfered with that. 

As for a motor, I have a 4.5 hp 2 stroke Ted Williams outboard.  It did great at half throttle taking us the half mile or so out the channel and into the lake.  I wish I would have bought a motor with more readily available parts though - something to keep in mind. 

[Jason]

Hi, I selected the yamaha 4hp long shaft.  I mount it on the trailer for trailering and on the 2 position motor mount when in the water. The reverse gear is very handy at the launch. Plenty of power to get back fast if you need to. I was worried about having too much weight aft, but the anchor, battery, and gear up front balance her out.