How much do I offer?

[MomentSurf]

I've been looking at a '86ish 27/2 for a looong time now.  Its been on the hard at a local Marina for about 6 years.  The boat seems to be in great shape, other than needing a cosmetic cleanup, possibly new sails, and new running rigging.  Its kept at a very well known marina and the engine was professionally winterized.  I've looked it over pretty well and I don't see any major problems (Hull looks good, bottom paint looks good, standing rigging looks good, ect).  The bilge has a bit of oil in it...after looking the engine over pretty well, I think its just from either an oil change spill or a slow drip on the bottom of the pan.  

The owner seems like he finally gave up on the hope of putting her in the water and asked me to make an offer!  I've been dreaming of this boat for years now.  I don't want to insult him with a lowball offer...but at the same time I want to get a good deal and I'm cautious of what I might run into with a boat thats been on the hard for so long.

What do I offer him?? I want to do this soon, before he changes his mind....

Thanks!

[Saluki86]

Somewhere on this message board, a person with an economics background did analysis of just this.....value of Compacs.  However, if memory serves, he didn't include 27s but I may be mistaken.  I will see if I can dig it up. 

With that said, my swag = $18-20k?

[Tim Gardner]

M'surf - First I recommend you get a survey done.  That will give you the starting point.  However the ave retail on an 88 CP-27/2 is around 13 - 14 K in REALLY good condition.

TG

[BobK]

The majority of the 1988 era boats reported sold on Sailing Texas and other sites look to be in the $18000 - $22000 range.
I would start at 18k and subtract all repairs that need to be done to bring it to avg condition.  Then figure how much less for a deal to offer. 
BobK

[NateD]

Somewhere on this message board, a person with an economics background did analysis of just this.....value of Compacs.  However, if memory serves, he didn't include 27s but I may be mistaken.  I will see if I can dig it up. 

With that said, my swag = $18-20k?

I did the economic analysis on used Com-Pac prices, but it didn't include the 27s.

What are you willing to pay for it? I like getting a deal as much as the next guy (maybe even a little more than the next guy), but if it is the boat that you really want, in good condition, in the location that you want, then offer what you're willing to pay, or maybe 2,000 less than you're willing so there is some wiggle room on your end.

He has had it sitting on the hard for years, so he doesn't seem like he really needs to sell it, he could just as well sit on it for another couple years. It doesn't sound like he will go for a low ball offer unless he really likes you. He could just as well put a for sale sign on it and see what kinds of other bids he could get. If you really want the boat, I would just be upfront and tell him you're willing to pay $x. From Sailing Texas it looks like the market price is in that $18-22k range as others have said.

[MomentSurf]

Thanks for all the input!!  I've been trying to get a hold of the owner but haven't had any luck...he's a busy guy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I had a chance to stop by the boat at the marina. She definitely needs a lot of work.  Sails (or at least work on the sails).  The oil in the bilge makes me very nervous. It needs new running rigging.  A good cleaning in and out (touch up on the bottom paint, deck scrubbing, hull polishing). Full tank of old diesel fuel. Looks like a possible leak in the waste tank. Old battery.  Re-seal all port holes.  A lot of little things... Hopefully nothing to major, but a project like this is right up my alley.

Hopefully she'll have a new home soon.

[skip1930]

You can always go up. So try $8,500 and see if anyone bites. Your going to put that much into it before she ever hits the water.
Your buying it for parts as far as anyone knows. " I don't want to insult him with a lowball offer. ". Bull Crap. He's not your buddy and if he can't get his boat in the water in six years, he has pretty much walked away from it. And you want the trailer, cradle, or supports to boot. And any tax he pays. Your doing him a favor taking the hulk off of his hands, right?

Your only looking at the stuff you can see. There is stuff you don't even know about that your going to spend money on. Cutless bearing comes to mind. Bacteria in the diesel tank, fuel filters, head problems, pottable water headaches, galley fodder, shall we go on?

If the boat was in the water and sailed last year, that would be a whole different story.

The owner needs a dose of reality....he wants more? Tell him to sell it to someone else. [In six years time there be no one else.] Then make an offer again.

Remember; the bigger the boat the less you go sailing. And now you'll have a boat you can't easily tow, pull, store, and park some where for free. You just entered the world of big boats, and big money. "I might be cheap but I ain't free."

Your in the driver's seat. skip.

[Saluki86]

I was crewing with a guy this weekend on his Flying Scot.  I commented how nice his boat was.  He said the rule of thumb for FS is "$1.3 x the hull number" to derive the value.  Never heard of that method before.  Is there something similar for Compacs?

[Billy]

I did hear that bottom paint will dry and flake off if it is out of the water too long. So I would bet the paint that is on there now won't be once she gets wet and stretches out her sea legs.

I'm with Skip on this one. Maybe $8,500 is a little low, but he has probably been paying a monthly fee to the boat yard for the last 6 years, unless he knows someone at the marina. And I'm sure he would rather have $10k or so in his hand than a $150/month payment.
6years X 12 Months = 72 Months
$150 X 72 months = $10,800

However, you will easily spend twice this
Big boats area a whole new ball game and you will now be paying slip fees, bottom paint, and what not.

[NateD]

I was crewing with a guy this weekend on his Flying Scot.  I commented how nice his boat was.  He said the rule of thumb for FS is "$1.3 x the hull number" to derive the value.  Never heard of that method before.  Is there something similar for Compacs?

I did some statistical modeling on prices for the CP23, 19, and 16, but not the 27 (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2892.0). All other things equal, you can knock $508 off for every year "old" a CP23 is (so a 1990 model sold in 2012 would now be 22 years old), for a CP19 it loses about $137 per year, and the 16 loses $110 for every year old. These are very rough averages, and it assumes the boat remains in the same overall condition. An older boat with new sails/electronics/improvements can gain some of the annual depreciation back, but newer boats in the same condition as an older model will almost always fetch a higher price.

[carry-on]

Have you considered a survey to get a better idea of the costs you will face? If you have a professional surveyor in the area, his/her charges may be reasonable.

[Saluki86]

Nate,

I totally dig your analysis! 

What do you use as a starting point?  For instance, I am interested in a 1981 C16.  How do I get the starting price to start subtracing the $110 per year?

[MomentSurf]

Skip...I totally agree. The more I think about it the lower my offer price gets.  Nate mentioned the possibility of me offering him a lowball price and the owner sitting on the boat for another three years. Thats what I was afraid of in the beginning, but hell...I've been looking at this boat for four years now...I'm pretty good at the waiting game as well. 

People who buy things and never use them (yes, I don't think he ever had this boat in the water) seem to think they are worth what they paid...even if it was six to eight years ago.  I'm not sure he realizes how much has to go into this boat to get her back sailing...if you were to hire someone to do all the things it needs, you're looking at a heafty sum of money.

Nate...the reason I mentioned bottom paint was for exactly the reason you suggested.  It looks like the boat has fresh coat of bottom pain on it (approx six years on the hard...at least) and a few spots have flaked off (only two 6"x6" spots).

As someone else asked, what is the starting point for your analysis? The price new? 

Thanks again all...still no contact, I'm going to give him a shout later today.

[Tim Gardner]

Before you call him look at this page:http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/1986/Com-Pac-Hutchins/27-SL-29/Standard-Equipment

TG

[jamato323]

I purchased a 25 last summer that was on the hard for four/five years AND the po was making payments plus storage fees.. Asking price $20,000. Surveyor said hull was fine....I did a deal for 15k...after recommissioning and lots of replacements (furler, autopilot, running rigging etc. etc.) I'm up to $25,000. But I have the boat I want and never regretted the deal. Advice, offer enough to get a counter offer.